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Keith
Keith GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/27/09 2:59 p.m.

That's not accurate. The 1997 was, if anything, lighter on average than the 1994 as the car got decontented. Torsens and rear subframe braces became less common. Quoted curb weights from Mazda were:

1994: 2293 lbs

1997: 2293 lbs

1999: 2299 lbs

2001: 2387 lbs (lots of new bracing)

2003 Club Sport: 2365 lbs (not from the brochure, but from my own scales)

2005 MSM: 2540 lbs (confirmed on our scales)

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
8/27/09 3:23 p.m.

Man, what was I thinking, buying an NB with tupperware. Avert your eyes http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/911/

ZOOMX5
ZOOMX5 New Reader
8/27/09 4:11 p.m.

I think pop up headlights are cool (except on the Accord I once owned) and make the car look sleek when they are retracted during daytime driving.

kreb
kreb GRM+ Memberand Dork
8/27/09 4:20 p.m.

In reply to ZOOMX5: Yeah, but don't forget the extra weight of the mechanisms sitting right where you want it least - on the nose. Besides, they're defacto air brakes when employed.

Brust
Brust Reader
8/27/09 4:53 p.m.

can't you get clear covers for them? I also dig the low profile dual setups, although you'll pay for them. Dearly.

Zman
Zman New Reader
8/27/09 5:05 p.m.

Question is...what is the NC like? Ehh?

Quay
Quay New Reader
8/27/09 5:58 p.m.

I'm in a similar position right now. I've got a '94 (with coilovers, racing seats, etc) and its really a fun car. But I'm considering selling it for an NB.

I'd really love to drive the car, and would love to commute with it a bit more. But the road noise is the real killer for me. With the soft top up, you hear every little vibration and every bump, I can stand it for about 15 to 20 minutes max. With the top down it's not bad, you get mostly wind noise which is ok ... except when you get on the highway, a semi right next to my ear is like instant-head ache for me. I could cruise around on back roads forever, but an hour on the beltway around DC and I'm ready to die.

I rode in a friend's 01 recently with the soft top up and it was completely different ... down right civilized. We could actually carry on a conversation without yelling, etc. I'm really tempted by the idea of selling my 94 and getting an NB.

My 2 cents ... if you're looking for strictly a track day / autox / fun car, get an NA. If you're planning doing any regular or DD duties with the car, get an NB.

kreb
kreb GRM+ Memberand Dork
8/27/09 6:17 p.m.

Anyone brace the chasis on a NA? It seems to me that the whole thing would feel a lot more solid and probably quieter if it didn't flex so much.

Keith
Keith GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/27/09 6:21 p.m.

Quay - put some sound insulation (I like this stuff) under the carpet on the rear deck and rear bulkhead. It's easy enough to do and $20 may solve your problems. I'll bet most of your noise is actually tire noise coming through the trunk. As for the noise of semis beside you when the roof's down, well, that's just convertible life.

Brust - you can't get clear covers for the standard lights. The low profile setups combine all the weight and function of popups with a downgrade in lighting ability As for the air brake argument - who's having trouble with a drag-limited top speed at night?

Zman - stock, the NC kinda sucks. They had a remedial school do the shock calibration. The "sport" setup is particularly bad. Put some new shocks on and it's a whole lot better. Otherwise, it's a good little car.

Keith
Keith GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/27/09 6:23 p.m.
kreb wrote: Anyone brace the chasis on a NA? It seems to me that the whole thing would feel a lot more solid and probably quieter if it didn't flex so much.

Definitely. FM has a whole section of products. The butterfly brace is a particular favorite. From the October 2007 GRM:

GRM said: Our Mariner Blue 1990 Miata—the very car that graced the cover of the June issue— has had a long life. It’s now pushing over 200,000 miles and has shown no signs of giving up the ghost. While new Miatas never really felt that stiff in the chassis-rigidity department, our rat has come to feel pretty flimsy over the years. We recently gave the car a physical boost with the installation of Flyin’ Miata’s butterfly brace system. These laser-cut pieces of stainless steel tie the front and rear subframes together to create one beautiful structure. The kit took us a little more than two hours to install, and that includes the time it took to remove the seats and carpet for the drilling of the 16 required holes. (Note that this kit isn’t legal for some racing classes.) Now when the steering wheel is turned, the front and rear suspensions instantly respond, making the car much more predictable. In one instant, it’s like we removed a few hundred thousand miles from the odometer. The Flyin’ Miata Butterfly Brace is an impressive piece of engineering, as it improves the Miata’s rigidity with no real downside.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?dept=15

Wowak
Wowak SuperDork
8/27/09 6:31 p.m.
Keith wrote: The 1999-05 top not only has a glass window and is more waterproof, it's also 3 kg lighter than the original and it'll bolt in. Now that is progress.

I've spent alot of time scratching my head at this old adage. Has anyone ever actually weighed a loose NB top and frame compared to an NA piece to verify this bit of Mazda truthiness? I can't see where the lost weight came from, since the NB frame only adds complexity with the spring mechanism, and I'm pretty sure glass is heavier than a comparable piece of plastic.

kreb
kreb GRM+ Memberand Dork
8/27/09 6:34 p.m.

not that you have a stake in the matter or anything edit: Miatas are like drugs. I get a nice 1990 for a mere $400 with a bad head. Fixing the head gives me a nice runabout and a huge inticement to buy $3k in tires, suspension, rollbar, seats and chasis brace.

What happened to my $400 "deal"?

wah!!!

Keith
Keith GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/27/09 6:39 p.m.
Wowak wrote:
Keith wrote: The 1999-05 top not only has a glass window and is more waterproof, it's also 3 kg lighter than the original and it'll bolt in. Now that is progress.
I've spent alot of time scratching my head at this old adage. Has anyone ever actually weighed a loose NB top and frame compared to an NA piece to verify this bit of Mazda truthiness? I can't see where the lost weight came from, since the NB frame only adds complexity with the spring mechanism, and I'm pretty sure glass is heavier than a comparable piece of plastic.

My source is the Yakamura NB book. There's a section devoted to the top. The fabric section is simpler with less overlap between sections and the zipper's gone. That's gotta be worth something. I'll check the actual quotes tonight.

Kreb, when you're done, you'll have a $3500 car that is huge fun. Would you rather it cost you $15000?

Quay
Quay New Reader
8/27/09 7:00 p.m.
Keith wrote: Quay - put some sound insulation (I like this stuff) under the carpet on the rear deck and rear bulkhead. It's easy enough to do and $20 may solve your problems. I'll bet most of your noise is actually tire noise coming through the trunk. As for the noise of semis beside you when the roof's down, well, that's just convertible life.

Hmm that might be worth effort. Fix the AC and put the hardtop on ... might just solve my problem. Thanks

Racer1ab
Racer1ab New Reader
8/28/09 4:25 a.m.
Quay wrote: I'm in a similar position right now. I've got a '94 (with coilovers, racing seats, etc) and its really a fun car. But I'm considering selling it for an NB. I'd really love to drive the car, and would love to commute with it a bit more. But the road noise is the real killer for me. With the soft top up, you hear every little vibration and every bump, I can stand it for about 15 to 20 minutes max. With the top down it's not bad, you get mostly wind noise which is ok ... except when you get on the highway, a semi right next to my ear is like instant-head ache for me. I could cruise around on back roads forever, but an hour on the beltway around DC and I'm ready to die. I rode in a friend's 01 recently with the soft top up and it was completely different ... down right civilized. We could actually carry on a conversation without yelling, etc. I'm really tempted by the idea of selling my 94 and getting an NB. My 2 cents ... if you're looking for strictly a track day / autox / fun car, get an NA. If you're planning doing any regular or DD duties with the car, get an NB.

If you do feel consider selling the car, feel free to shoot me a PM!

Wowak
Wowak SuperDork
8/28/09 3:47 p.m.
Keith wrote: My source is the Yakamura NB book. There's a section devoted to the top. The fabric section is simpler with less overlap between sections and the zipper's gone. That's gotta be worth something. I'll check the actual quotes tonight.

Yeah, I've seen the quotes from the book. I can't imagine that the zipper and any amount of fabric offsets the weight of the glass, I was wondering if there were any changes to the frame to make it lighter. I don't suppose you want to hit the salvage area at work and do some mythbusting?

awebb
awebb New Reader
8/28/09 3:55 p.m.

Go find a 1995 Miata with Power Windows (yes power windows will weight a little more). The 1995 Power Equiped Package (PEP) imo is the best package you can get ahold of. It offers the 1.8L motor, in OBD-I and should sport a factory 4.10 Torsen LSD.

The 1994 Also had the LSD but they're a little harder to find (I believe only the R-package came with it).

Do some research on Miata.net and find out what options you want (you do want the Torsen LSD) and go hunting for a low mile candidate from there. It may cost you a little more and take a little longer but you'll be happy with the outcome...

Keith
Keith GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/28/09 4:31 p.m.

Actually, almost every 5-speed 1994 and 1995 had the LSD. They're pretty easy to find. Only the base models and the autos didn't have it.

awebb
awebb New Reader
8/31/09 3:16 p.m.
Keith wrote: Actually, almost every 5-speed 1994 and 1995 had the LSD. They're pretty easy to find. Only the base models and the autos didn't have it.

There ya go.

kreb
kreb GRM+ Memberand Dork
9/2/09 4:38 p.m.
Kreb, when you're done, you'll have a $3500 car that is huge fun. Would you rather it cost you $15000?

Indeed, and I trully love my Miata already. OTOH, I run a metal shop and get steel and alumium for free. There's an alternate math here: One $400 miata + free metal + $3,500 + 300 -500 hours = 1 Locost. hmmmmm, decisions, decisions.

jdcanadian
jdcanadian
9/3/09 12:36 p.m.

wow! i'm amazed nobody's mentioned the better motor as of '01....that year they added VVT on the exhaust side and at 3500+ rpm it really screams.

I love my '01 NB, not as much of a "chearleader" car(don't hate me, i do love them) but i love the more aggressive look of the NB.

jdcanadian, '01 base Miata, "Sterling"

Rusnak_322
Rusnak_322 Reader
9/3/09 1:12 p.m.

From what I have read, the VVT only added complexity to the car and something like 5 hp at the crank. It also doesn't take to FI as well as the earlier motors and requires premium gasoline. In other words - it ain't no V-Tech. ;)

Keith
Keith GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
9/3/09 1:12 p.m.

Not everything you read is true.

The VVT cars love forced induction, especially if you have an ECU that can control it. Makes a nice big difference to spool. I think some of the supercharger guys have had problems - not necessarily related to VVT, but probably due to the VTCS system in the intake manifold - and thus the rumors started.

It also allowed Mazda to meet more stringent emissions controls without losing power. In California, Mazda was actually able to remove a catalytic converter thanks to the VVT. It's not VTEC, but VTEC is a binary setup wheras VVT is analog - you can alter the cam timing right across the range, not just switch from Lobe A to Lobe B at X rpm.

The premium gas is also due to the higher compression ratio, the 2001 cars climbed to 10:1.

BTW, VVT was on the intake cam, not the exhaust.

car39
car39 Reader
9/3/09 1:41 p.m.
Keith wrote: Actually, almost every 5-speed 1994 and 1995 had the LSD. They're pretty easy to find. Only the base models and the autos didn't have it.

And of course, I had to buy a base model and add the big buck torsen later.

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