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californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UberDork
11/25/23 10:59 p.m.

is the ignition and door / trunk key the same ?

if so how hard is it to take off trunk lock ?

And is there a key code on door / trunk locks ?

thats what we did on later VW bugs.....

AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
11/26/23 7:22 a.m.

In reply to californiamilleghia :

The physical lock is a minor issue, the major problem is the electronic key fob. From what I have read and found, these cars can not even be shifted out of Park without the correct transponder key. There is a module in the dashboard behind the passenger airbag that is matched with the key and I think that a paired module and fob can be transplanted from one car to another.

Caperix
Caperix Reader
11/26/23 7:50 a.m.

The dashes come out surprisingly easy. I had to remove the upper dash on my wife's 2006 due to a capacitor issue in the speedo cluster.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
11/26/23 8:37 a.m.
californiamilleghia said:

is the ignition and door / trunk key the same ?

if so how hard is it to take off trunk lock ?

And is there a key code on door / trunk locks ?

thats what we did on later VW bugs.....

Here is an exploded view of a Gen2 Prius fob. 

The critical pieces here are that tiny black piece which is a specific "chip" that your car recognizes when you put the square fob into the slot on the dash.  This "chip" also is what makes the remote lock/unlock button work for your specific car.  

The second critical piece is the metal key.  This is your other way of unlocking the car.  But, that metal key only unlocks the driver's door.  There is no provision for the metal key to start the car.  Starting the car requires the fob w/ proper chip.  Furthermore, there is only one receptacle for the metal key and that is only the driver's door.  There is nowhere on the trunk to insert a key...just the driver's door.  

 

A further story...  On my P5, I needed to replace the driver's door due to accident damage.  I bought that door off a Prius dismantler but I also asked for the metal key from his parts car.  That then got me a fresh door but also the ability to unlock that door.  My existing fob box and the existing chip continued to start the car and unlock all doors via fob 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
11/26/23 8:58 a.m.
AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) said:

Hey John, I'm deciding which of two to rebuild with the other as a parts car. One has no key. Have you ever had a key made or swapped the transponder module and smart key from another car?

I'm thinking that paying a few hundred $$$ to a locksmith might be better than pulling 2 dashboards apart.

This burgundy car, P8, that I just bought claims to not come with a key either.  The plan so far is that Indy-Guy is gonna send me one of his parts car fobs as well as the module in the dashboard to recognize that fob. We expect that this will then start the car.  

...We'll see.  

Dashboard tear down is not that difficult and I have now done it a few time.  Most important is to remember to work from the door sides to the center of the dashboard.  The dash pieces interlock/overlap so removing them in other order will result in broken tabs/pieces. 

This video is pretty thorough about dashboard tear down.

AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
11/26/23 9:34 a.m.

In reply to John Welsh :

Thanks. Just watched through that whole video. It's not at all as bad as I thought. I love DIY videos that are concise and clearly show the work without all the extra discussion and 'character'.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/2/23 6:09 p.m.

P8, the Burgundy clean - ugly car arrived to my buddies boat shop on Monday.  

I had a busy week and it gets dark early  so today, Saturday, 40 degrees and a light rain (crappy), I spend about 1.5 hours tearing down the car.  I looked at the car before bidding but the cars are packed tight and with a flat tire, there is no real good way to see what is really going on behind that flat tire or underbody.  

My ruling for today is that the car can be saved.  Yeah!  Biggest challenge is going to be the need for some big Ugga-Duggas to rebend this inner fender support that has changed shape a bit.  You can see where the paint has come off from bending.  Once re-bent I will then spray some black on there to delay rust.  Color wont matter.  It wont be seen again once a new fender is on.  

Speaking of rust.  This car is amazingly rust free like you would expect of a car from Los Angeles all it's life!  
Speaking of color.  I have sourced two right doors and front fender from one car 45 minutes away.  I was near that JY earlier this week and stopped in to see the car.  Those doors will work.  Sadly, the hood and bumper cover are already gone from that car.  

 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/3/23 4:41 p.m.

I put in 2.5 hours today.  Also a cold rain day.  I have the dash out and the new immobilizer in. With the paired key from that immobilizer I still do not get the car to start.  Rain was getting heavier and colder.  I threw in the towel for today.  

I tried this jumper wire to no avail.  However my jumper wire was only a paper clip (not good copper wire.)  I'll try again my next available which will be Friday (5 days from now.)  

AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
12/4/23 4:16 p.m.

John, just to run back through what I saw:

  • Beginning with immobilizer installed, 12V battery fully charged, and all electronics plugged back in.
  • Inserted the key in the socket and pressed the On button with my foot on the brake.
  • Dash lights came on, but no 'Ready'.

  • DR Prius indicated Fault Code B2799 when checking for battery faults.
  • From there, I powered off and went through the jumper procedure outlined in my other thread.

  • I used a paper clip. At first nothing happened. I wiggled the jumper to check the connection and some of the lights started blinking - ABS, VSC, and check engine I think. The main screen showed diagnostics rather than normal functions.
  • From there I waited the 30 Minutes. ***I had a battery charger connected to the 12V the whole time.***
  • After 30 minutes, powered off, removed jumper, removed key fob.
  • Inserted key fob, powered on with foot on brake. Normal start with Ready indicated.
John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/4/23 9:43 p.m.

In reply to AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks for the encouragement.  My frustration was getting high on Sunday with the cold rain, etc.  Perhaps Friday will bring warmer temps and a cooler head!  

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/9/23 9:43 a.m.
AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) said:

John, just to run back through what I saw:

  • Beginning with immobilizer installed, 12V battery fully charged, and all electronics plugged back in.
  • Inserted the key in the socket and pressed the On button with my foot on the brake.
  • Dash lights came on, but no 'Ready'.

Here's the current state...

I put in about 2 hours yesterday.  I made no true progress.  

12v:  I have a dead battery in the car.  I took the battery cables off the red car(P8) battery.  I parked my DD Prius (P2) trunk to trunk with P8.  I clamped jumper cables onto the P8 battery cables and then onto the battery of P2.  Net result, I have bypassed 100% the drained battery of P8 and both cars are running on the battery of P2.  
I then went to the front of P8.  Under hood there is a jumper point.  I put a v-meter there while only P2 was running.  From that jump point of P8 I am reading 13.8v.  This means that from front to back, P8 has 13.8v (at that moment.)  My ruling here is that it is not a low voltage situation.  

With new immobilizer and matching key inserted I only get this:

  • Power button turns green upon pushing it
  • The dashboard does not light up.  In picture you can see green on power and at the dashbboard the only thing lit up is red for door open.  
  • Important also to note the center HVAC screen (MFD) does not come on.  I think this rules out that it is not a bad combination meter situation.
  • When pushing in the power button, and only for a second, I get a yellow light that I think is the check engine light.    

Note: when I put in the matched set of key and immobilizer the power button turns green.  If I insert the key from P2 (the wrong key for this car) the power button will not even light up to green.  I take that to mean that the matched set are speaking to each other, which is good.   

 

So, I think I have a working key but that I have a car with a no-start situation.  

I have researched that down to...bad inverter pump.  I know these are common for shorting out and these then cause a no start situation.  Also, when you have a bad inverter pump they blow the 15 amp ARS fuse underhood.  I have discovered that ARS fuse slot has a 20a fuse????  Has this pump been going bad and blowing 15's so they put in a 20 to avoid the blow????  Did the 20a then just juice the hell out of the pump...to death?  

Throwing parts:  
Amazon can have me this $25 pump by Sunday with favorable return policy if I am wrong. 

 

Someone else's picture of that fuse related to inverter pump:

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
12/9/23 10:47 a.m.

In reply to John Welsh :

Your theory seems sound.  A "wrong size" fuse is a smoking gun pointing to a potential problem.

Woody (Forum Supportum)
Woody (Forum Supportum) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/9/23 1:37 p.m.
Indy - Guy said:

In reply to John Welsh :

Your theory seems sound.  A "wrong size" fuse is a smoking gun pointing to a potential problem.

Speaking of smoking guns... Last week, I extinguished a burning Prius.

We had our first training specifically on Prius fires about 20 years ago. I've been to a pretty fair number of MVAs involving Priuses since then, but this was the first actual fire.

We were just dispatched for just "car fire", so I had no advance notice that it was a hybrid until I got pretty close to it. It was dark out and the car was pretty heavily involved when we got there.

The main things that I remembered from the training were: 1) Watch out for the big fat brightly colored wires, 2) pull the orange breaker, and 3) killing the 12v power should shut down everything else.

Most of the hood was either gone or melted away (are they aluminum or composite?). The 12v battery was easy to find, but it was half melted away and half covered with the melted remains of the hood. There seemed to be multiple wires going to both posts and there was no easy way to determine which was which as there was so much debris on top. I couldn't disconnect either terminal, and I wasn't going to take a chance of cutting the wrong wires. I pulled the breaker from the spare tire well, but even after we put the fire out, the burned up 12v battery was still sending power to the tail lights.

The driver said that the car had been running rough for a few days and that she knew there was something wrong with it.

The fire marshal (who is not a mechanic) asked me what I thought might have happened. I'm not a fire marshal, but I think this was just a regular old car fire. Origin was clearly on the passenger side of the engine compartment, and I suspect it was a fuel delivery problem to the ICE. I think the fact that it was a hybrid was just a coincidence.

The fire was mostly contained to the engine compartment, but there was damage to the dash from the heat and the windshield was broken. The rest of the car was just full of smoke and water. It's a goner.

Cause was officially listed as "Undetermined". I think the car was a 2010.

It was an interesting call, and I felt bad for the owner.

 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/10/23 8:00 a.m.

F-ers!  Amazon shows my pump arrived at my local Post Office at about 2am last night.  But, the post office shows it wont be delivered until Monday, not today as Amazon originally stated.  Missed weekend opportunity. sad

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
12/10/23 9:11 a.m.

In reply to John Welsh :

Bummer 

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
12/10/23 9:15 a.m.

Suggestion:  buy one today at the FLAPS install to test.  Return Amazon one when it arrives late?

Gets you a result to your test.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/10/23 9:33 a.m.

In reply to Indy - Guy :

Considered but test involves running coolant through it.  I think it will be hard to return looking unused.  

Also local is $159.  Amazon is $25.  I don't want to risk the unreturnable $159.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/10/23 10:28 a.m.

A glorious update.  USPS site now says, "out for delivery."

Fa-la-la-la.  I'm sure this is exactly "the most wonderful time of the year" for USPS workers

Now my cynical side guesses it will arrive at 5:30p ( dark at 5:00)

docwyte
docwyte UltimaDork
12/10/23 10:45 a.m.

In reply to John Welsh :

Today's Sunday, USPS delivers on Sundays now?

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/10/23 10:46 a.m.

Yes, specifically Amazon packages only (and some holiday overflow packages.)

https://about.usps.com/news/electronic-press-kits/holidaynews/2014/pdf/hc2014_faqs.pdf

dj06482 (Forum Supporter)
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
12/10/23 12:52 p.m.

I've also seen Amazon struggle to meet timing commitments more over the past few weeks than the entire year. I've never seen the data that shows the uptick in orders this time of year, but judging from our own accumulation of brown boxes at home, I'd say it must be pretty significant.

I typically don't rely on FedEx dates at all (been burned way too many times), but now I'm suspicious of Amazon's delivery dates for scheduling car work.  I need to replace a blown headlight bulb in our Rav4, and I'm torn between throwing in a standard 9006 or waiting for the 9012s that are supposed to arrive by 10PM tonight.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/10/23 2:45 p.m.

Mixed euphemisms...

The eagle has landed! The ball is in our court!

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/10/23 3:54 p.m.

Well, it only took 30 minutes and $25 to find out...

That's not the answer.

 

It's 38 degrees out with a 12-18 mile wind about 200 yrd from the shore of Lake Erie.  Cold.  Done for today. 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/10/23 4:44 p.m.

I wish knew more about this car's debilitating accident.  The California title gave no insight into who the previous owner was or how to reach them.  My layman's vin search gave no answers either.  

I have a suspicion that maybe some backstory would help with the go-forward plan.  

Anyone?

Vin: JTDKB20U757037577

Direct:  ... jwelsh02... yahoo...

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
12/10/23 4:47 p.m.

Did you inspect the combination meter capacitor while you had the dash off?  I would investigate that next.

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