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KyAllroad
KyAllroad Dork
1/11/15 7:25 p.m.

Well, it is an AWD car that weighs 4,000 lbs and makes about 300 hp/275 tq and has one of the strongest chassis ever built in a car. Front brakes are 13.5" disks with 4 piston calipers, rear brakes are only 12.5".

The only thing my suburban has an advantage in is sheer mass. Otherwise it has smaller brakes, less power, fewer gears, and less chassis rigidity. But it's rated to drag around 6,500 lbs.

Wally
Wally GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/11/15 7:37 p.m.

In reply to KyAllroad:

I'm surprised it has no tow rating. I would have thought the Passat should tow just fine. For much of the last century station wagons with less everything were the tow vehicles of choice for campers, boats and other cars.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy UberDork
1/11/15 10:31 p.m.

Nope, you are just an idiot. Entirely. Comparing a truck or car towing a couple thousand pounds to a machine designed to do it with 10's of thousands is plain stupid. One of the most assinine comments I've heard on this site.

Hey, look at me, I can also be an shiny happy person! But at least my comments have some validity behind it.

EastCoastMojo
EastCoastMojo GRM+ Memberand Mod Squad
1/11/15 10:47 p.m.

Some really good points are being discussed in this thread, and there's a lot of solid advice that has been posted.

I would just like to ask that we keep the banter civil. Please.

Rad_Capz
Rad_Capz HalfDork
1/11/15 11:02 p.m.

Spotted this rig at a local storage place recently. The owner said the trailer didn't exceed the manufacturers towing limits of the car. I was astounded the car was even allowed to tow anything.

[URL=http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/007_zps39e993ab.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/008_zps65854d3b.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/006_zpsfad3d765.jpg.html][/URL]

edizzle89
edizzle89 Reader
1/12/15 8:20 a.m.
HiTempguy wrote:
KyAllroad wrote: a car that should be comfortable towing 5,000 lbs is somehow excluded entirely. Makes no sense.
No... just no. Nobody should be towing 5000lbs with a car (and I basically want to go PERIOD at the end of that statement). Mass/weight is required to control the mass/weight you are towing. Having done a LOT of towing (well over 100,000kms by now), there is a reason why that sort of weight (5000+ lbs) is listed as 1/2 ton truck territory. If you've towed with a truck from the 90's, you'd know your 4500lb truck could handle 5000lbs quite well, but you could definitely tell the weight was there (and the trucks motor was feeling it). By contrast, you want to tow 5000lbs with a vehicle that weighs under 4000lbs and makes 200tq? Uh huh, tell me more...

with maybe the exception of the caprice/roadmasters with the tow package, i think they were rated at something like 5000 or 7000 lbs.

also a safe guess for any small/mid sized car is ~1000 lbs. but calling your local uhaul will get you your best answer

EvanR
EvanR Dork
1/12/15 10:28 a.m.
with maybe the exception of the caprice/roadmasters with the tow package, i think they were rated at something like 5000 or 7000 lbs.

...or any of its BOF predecessors.

History lesson: Kids, there was once a time when ordinary folks didn't own trucks - they were reserved for farmers, ranchers, and other people who had actual loads to haul in a professional manner.

Ordinary people owned cars. And they towed with them.

As Ronnie and the Daytonas once sang:

"I took my Cobra down to the track,

Hitched to the back of my Cadillac.

Everyone there was a-waiting for me,

There were plenty of Stingrays and XK-Es."

KyAllroad
KyAllroad Dork
1/12/15 11:17 a.m.

I have questions about using Uhaul are a reference for what can tow and how much. A few years ago I had a '97 Exlorer and Uhaul wouldn't rent to me at all (this was during the rollover crisis). Now they will. I believe lawyers may have been involved and that always makes everything better.

Wally
Wally GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/12/15 11:51 a.m.

Lawyers are generally the cause of this silliness. We towed a 70's Impala endure car with an 80's Impala. With tools tires and four guys we had no trouble. I can't believe a modern car of similar specs would suddenly become a death trap. Physics is still the same.

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic PowerDork
1/12/15 12:04 p.m.

In reply to KyAllroad:

Last I checked they still wont, because statistically Explorer owners cause them the most trouble by far, not because of the firestone thing. Same goes for Jeeps without a hardtop.

bluej
bluej SuperDork
1/12/15 12:38 p.m.

This is quite relevant and timely for me. We're looking into new cars for my girlfriend. Because she's awesome, she suggested trying to find something that tows, but we would otherwise be looking for something like a focus/mazda3 size hatchback. We both are intrigued by the X1 since it's basically a lifted wagon and hits our fuel economy/size/cargo capacity/aesthetics sweet spot, but it's not tow rated.

In europe, the X1 is rated for ~4400 lbs. for a braked trailer and ~1650 non-braked. My towing setup is flat-towing an e30 so there's no tongue-weight but ~2800 lbs. being towed. You can get aftermarket hitches that are rated to the euro max and there's accessories for adding a "bike rack" from bmw that includes adding the replacement metal under-bumper. My concern is any warranty issues. anyone have any experience with aftermarket hitches and having warranty problems?

rcutclif
rcutclif GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
1/12/15 12:54 p.m.

here's the question i have been meaning to ask - can you 'upgrade' your car to tow more than the manufacturer rating?

I mean, we can modify for more horsepower, torque, handling, cooling, lighting, you name it.

Why wouldn't towing capacity be something a car could be upgraded to do better?

i.e. if my car has a x lb towing capacity, if I upgrade the trans cooler, brake pads and add air bag spring helpers in the rear, shouldn't I now be able to tow more than x? (up to a limit I suppose, just like anything else).

NGTD
NGTD SuperDork
1/12/15 3:17 p.m.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

UHaul will rent to owners of the new (2011-present) Explorer, but I am not sure about 3rd and 4th Gen.

ggarrard
ggarrard GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/12/15 3:42 p.m.

Thank you EvanR for voicing my thoughts. I used to tow a small Coleman popup and several Z cars on tow Dolly's behind a 95 Maxima 5spd. We use a Pathfinder now, but only because our current boat is too heavy for a van.

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro HalfDork
1/12/15 3:53 p.m.
rcutclif wrote: here's the question i have been meaning to ask - can you 'upgrade' your car to tow more than the manufacturer rating? I mean, we can modify for more horsepower, torque, handling, cooling, lighting, you name it. Why wouldn't towing capacity be something a car could be upgraded to do better? i.e. if my car has a x lb towing capacity, if I upgrade the trans cooler, brake pads and add air bag spring helpers in the rear, shouldn't I now be able to tow more than x? (up to a limit I suppose, just like anything else).

Unfortunately, the DOT will only recognize the original ratings for the vehicle. Couple friends actually tried to do this and were told no way.

stanger_missle
stanger_missle GRM+ Memberand Dork
1/12/15 5:05 p.m.
NGTD wrote: In reply to Kenny_McCormic: UHaul will rent to owners of the new (2011-present) Explorer, but I am not sure about 3rd and 4th Gen.

I read awhile ago that the reason that Uhaul does not rent to Explorers wasn't based on the mechanical aspect but rather the bad rap Uhaul got during that fiasco. Their lawyers told them to just avoid Explorers all together because the perception was more than the physics. We had a 2004 Explorer and I got denied trying to rent an enclosed trailer.

The Wrangler thing pisses me off because the hardtop just shatters in a roll over event. They classify the soft top version as a "convertible" and will not rent to one, even though it has a roll bar (not the greatest but its good enough to pass the FMVSS).

atm92484
atm92484 New Reader
1/12/15 5:09 p.m.
Rad_Capz wrote: Spotted this rig at a local storage place recently.....

Yeah that is terrifying. Long wheelbases are nice for stability. I'd hate to image the result if you got a trailer swaying behind something that short.

Turboeric
Turboeric New Reader
1/12/15 5:15 p.m.
SVreX wrote: In reply to Turboeric: Almost nothing. I could easily lift it with one hand.

There's your problem. You should have ~10% of the trailer weight on the tongue, to preserve stability.

NGTD
NGTD SuperDork
1/12/15 6:15 p.m.

In reply to stanger_missle:

UHaul banned Explorer's because they were sued along with Ford and Firestone. A number of the people in the lawsuit were towing UHaul trailers with their underinflated tires!

UHaul didn't like the fact that they had to payout in the suit and decided to ban the Explorer. They maintained this long after the tires were removed because they were angry. It makes no sense. I had a 98 Explorer and if I needed to tow something, I had to borrow my FIL's Dakota.

I have a 2012 Explorer, so I know that they will rent to 5th gen owners. I rented a car dolly this summer.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/12/15 7:47 p.m.
Turboeric wrote:
SVreX wrote: In reply to Turboeric: Almost nothing. I could easily lift it with one hand.
There's your problem. You should have ~10% of the trailer weight on the tongue, to preserve stability.

Nope.

You missed what kind of trailer- teardrop. It's essentially a small cargo.

That means the load can vary a lot. Sprung for higher weights, but often run empty.

And 10% of the trailer weight (empty) WAS something I could lift with one hand.

I have logged over a million miles towing. I'm pretty familiar with how to distribute a load.

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic PowerDork
1/12/15 8:01 p.m.

You can calm down an unloaded bouncy trailer by letting some air out of the tires, if they aren't getting hot, they've got enough air in them. Just don't forget to fill them later (back to sidewall) before loading.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand UberDork
1/12/15 8:21 p.m.

Tow ratings on cars are 50% marketable BS and 50% manufacturers covering their arses.

Take for example; the 4500-lb tow rating on a 96 Caprice with an LT1 and the 2.73 gears in a 7.5" rear axle. Upgrade to an Impala SS with an 8.5", stiffer springs and shocks, and 3.08s? Now you can only tow 3000. Complete market segment BS.

In those two cases, its obvious that the ratings are bogus. Same car, better equipped, lower rating. However, they both have frames. Its quite possible that the Genesis has nothing but flimsy sheet metal back there and no suitable means to mount a hitch. I thought about putting a hitch on my wife's old Tercel because she wanted a 4x6 trailer with a tent on it to go camping. It would have weighed about 500 lbs tops. But I couldn't find ANY sheet metal under the trunk that was thicker than about 16 gauge. Zero structure to bolt a hitch to.

taparsons
taparsons New Reader
1/13/15 1:39 a.m.
HiTempguy wrote:
KyAllroad wrote: a car that should be comfortable towing 5,000 lbs is somehow excluded entirely. Makes no sense.
No... just no. Nobody should be towing 5000lbs with a car (and I basically want to go PERIOD at the end of that statement). Mass/weight is required to control the mass/weight you are towing. Having done a LOT of towing (well over 100,000kms by now), there is a reason why that sort of weight (5000+ lbs) is listed as 1/2 ton truck territory. If you've towed with a truck from the 90's, you'd know your 4500lb truck could handle 5000lbs quite well, but you could definitely tell the weight was there (and the trucks motor was feeling it). By contrast, you want to tow 5000lbs with a vehicle that weighs under 4000lbs and makes 200tq? Uh huh, tell me more...

Ordered with the towing package, the 94-96 Roadmaster was advertised to tow up to 5000 pounds, although the Estate Wagon owner's manual extended that to 7,000 lbs when using a weight distributing hitch, dual sway controls, increasing the rear tire pressure to 35 psi and disabling the Electronic Level Control.

akamcfly
akamcfly Dork
1/13/15 5:04 a.m.
curtis73 wrote: Its quite possible that the Genesis has nothing but flimsy sheet metal back there and no suitable means to mount a hitch. I thought about putting a hitch on my wife's old Tercel because she wanted a 4x6 trailer with a tent on it to go camping. It would have weighed about 500 lbs tops. But I couldn't find ANY sheet metal under the trunk that was thicker than about 16 gauge. Zero structure to bolt a hitch to.

It's possible except the usual suspects all manufacture hitches for it. Most of them are rated for 3500lbs even. I have no aspirations of going anywhere near that weight.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg MegaDork
1/13/15 7:16 a.m.

In reply to HiTempguy:

Towing 5000lbs and more behind a sedan or wagon unibodied car common everywhere but in the land of litigation

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