Webers vs Weber Clones?

Anybody with actual experience?   I've got a chance to pick up a set (6)  of Weber 48IDA's  clones for an unbelievable price ($300 ) 

   How good/bad are they?  Am I correct in assuming I can use Weber jets, choke's, etc in them or will I need to chase down the original ( probably Chinese ( ?  ) Manufacturer  for tuning parts?  

My brother got a knockoff and then bought a real one.  
ymmv

I don't have any firsthand experience, but I have heard from the owner of a VW shop that they are not great.  He said a few people have put EMPI brand Weber copies on and couldn't get them to work correctly.  

I wouldn't assume the parts interchange. 

In reply to rustyvw :

Thank you for your input.  
  What I'd like to know ( I'm assuming of course). Is, do the clones send out carbs and let the owners hopefully  figure out what Jets, air correction meters, chokes etc?   
  When I bought my first set of WEBERS, the place was extremely helpful in suggesting starting jets, air correction meters , chokes etc. 

  Starting from nothing I would have been really lost.  Starting with the Weber dealers help I was able to get it running then using the Weber tuning book  get it pretty decent. 
      Now I think I've got a decent enough handle to start without the first bit of help.  But  if the clones don't accept WEBER parts?   Where do I get all the stuff needed?  

SV reX said:

I wouldn't assume the parts interchange. 

Thanks.  That's why I'm trying to get some hands on knowledge. 

We had a set of knock-offs on my moms old '57 vw. They were ok in that the car started and ran, but it never really ran all that well. Part of it was definitely just too much carb, but there was more. For looks and price and an occasional weekend car on a tight budget, go ahead. For actual heavy use, just bite the bullet and get the real deal. 

I think you answered your own question. The cost of real stuff versus knockoffs is knowledge, support, spare parts availability, and parts interchangeability.  Maintaining all of that costs money. 

Absolutely agree with that statement.  The simple truth is that six 48 IDA WEBERS  cost $2700+  which I simply don't have.  
   
   I do have $300. 

barefootcyborg5000 said:

We had a set of knock-offs on my moms old '57 vw. They were ok in that the car started and ran, but it never really ran all that well. Part of it was definitely just too much carb, but there was more. For looks and price and an occasional weekend car on a tight budget, go ahead. For actual heavy use, just bite the bullet and get the real deal. 

 Thanks.  What did you change and adjust on the Clones?   Do Weber parts fit?  

Not specific to IDAs but to Webers.

When I began running an SCCA IT car in the 80s I started collecting and selling used 32/36 progressives. I learned that some were knock offs but the jets etc did interchange. That does not mean that;

1. They are well made or operate like a Weber jet. But note that I am always suspicious of jets from unknown sources since some people think drilling out a jet is a good practice.
2.  The nonWeber clone was made to the same specifications as Weber designed them.

Recently (this year) I spoke to a tech at Redline regarding a project where it is possible I will use a 3 carb 32/36 set up. He indicated a couple times that if I used something other than genuine Webers the info he might offer, in regard to tuning, may not work. This would be due to “differences” between Webers and clones.

I have a set of "Reedmoral" 45 DCOE Weber clones on the Cossie engine in my Capri.  FWIW, interchangeability has been 100% with the Weber parts I have used in the process of tuning them.  Aside from all the usual caveats of sidedraft DCOEs, they work fine, though I am not quite 100% there with the tuning.  I do also have original Weber DCOEs in 45 and 48, but the clones were on the car when I bought it, so I just worked with what is there.

In reply to frenchyd :

It was a twin carb setup on the vw. The clones seemed to take most of the usual replacement parts without issue, but the fit and finish was questionable and the big issue I remember was the linkage just didn't want to work and we had to cobble it quite extensively. As I said, it ran mostly OK, even did a couple 1000 mile round trips, but it was not worth the headache or "performance" in that car. For any curious, it was a 1776cc dual port with a 110 cam and stock heads, and twin 40s are too much, real or knockoff. My 1641 with a single 34PICT and the "hot for teacher" cam would run circles around it. Well, with 8psi jammed down it's gullet, it would. ;)

That's only 435 cc per throat. Feeding a 40mm carb into only 435 cc is not going to provide a very strong signal and with a semi serious camshaft that's going to be even weaker at anything below high rpm. 
  Frankly just to get that to idle at all  is remarkable.  
   Yeh! boost does kind of solve a lot of issues.  
 But thanks for the details.  

L5wolvesf said:

Not specific to IDAs but to Webers.

When I began running an SCCA IT car in the 80s I started collecting and selling used 32/36 progressives. I learned that some were knock offs but the jets etc did interchange. That does not mean that;

1. They are well made or operate like a Weber jet. But note that I am always suspicious of jets from unknown sources since some people think drilling out a jet is a good practice.
2.  The nonWeber clone was made to the same specifications as Weber designed them.

Recently (this year) I spoke to a tech at Redline regarding a project where it is possible I will use a 3 carb 32/36 set up. He indicated a couple times that if I used something other than genuine Webers the info he might offer, in regard to tuning, may not work. This would be due to “differences” between Webers and clones.

You are spot on with regard the quality of Webers. Back in the 1960's you could actually see the degree Weber went to regarding jets. Granted you needed a really great magnifying glass  or a microscope.  
     They weren't just holes drilled into a brass plug. But beautiful radius on entry and exit.    All sorts of care and detail to ensure each jet flowed exactly according to specifications.  The same detail extended to everything. Chokes, air correction meters etc. 

  Webers are clearly worth it.    But when I bought my Set for my firstV12  I also had to buy also a lot of different sized stuff for tuning.  While you can get an average car to run on one set up.  The justification for Webers is the degree they can be tuned for optimum power no matter what the air density/ humidity  was.   Those were more expensive than the carbs.  
    

Well if you are not buying them , I would like too :)

My fat ass came in here lookin' for BBQ

I think the issue is tuning, the actual sizing of jets and stuff is unknown, then Chinese rubber and plastic parts are likely junk.  You are going to have to check 6 carbs.  

I just put a mikuni on my Harley and had both the real thing and a knock off side by side. The Chinese casting was good but the seals were junk, external stuff rusted.  Didn't want to spend the time tuning it, ended up getting the real deal.  

Have you considered something like this?

It wouldn't be as pretty, but  if you can fab the manifolds, then you have a lot of options for carbs. 
 

Those manifolds sell for more than the price of a set of real Webers .  If you call the numbers attached to them no one calls you back.   
      Aside from that if you eyeball measure that manifold you would see it would poke through the hood. And that's before you put the carbs on it.   Or air cleaners 

  I seriously doubt that would be allowed in Vintage racing.  Since group 44 raced with Webers  they would be allowed.   

In reply to frenchyd :

Oh...

I was thinking challenge build and fabbing your own variant of those manifolds. 

In reply to No Time :

I'm still challenge bound, or I should say the car is.   Out of pocket I'm still well under a grand.  I just don't want to  do the documentation.  A lot of my stuff is leftover odds and ends, material   From projects 20-30 years ago with no receipt.   

No Time said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Oh...

I was thinking challenge build and fabbing your own variant of those manifolds. 

Interesting.   But finding a pair of good used 430 CFM carbs.  Would be a long  difficult battle.
     I think reading the  story about 3D printers it would be possible to make  make patterns to  make  something that fits and would work. 
    I've been toying with the idea of  getting into casting aluminum.  But if I did them, I'd still use  Webers.   The idea is to make your manifold as straight as possible.  Every curve costs you power. 

Clone vs Original

Original for the win

Speed costs money

How fast do you want to go

I'd like to go as fast as I can with the money I have.  
     All my life I've raced against people with much bigger budgets.   What I've found is the slight increase in speed a whole bunch of  money can buy can usually be beaten by hard work and aggressive driving.