I was under the car this weekend and found that the drop links on my car are shot. There is so much play in the ends that it can move almost 3/8" in any direction. Needless to say this is probably contributing to the odd handling characteristics I have had for a little while now.
So at over $100 a pair to replace them I am thinking that there has to be a better alternative.
For reference this is what they are:
Anyone have any ideas for where to get s generic version of these weltmister drop links?
Better image
Coleman Racing and others sell links in lot's of configurations (size, length, hex/round/solid/hollow/welded/swaged/steel/aluminum)
What size are those rod ends?
I have a lathe, and could easily crank out the center pieces.
But by the time you've bought 4 good rodends, 2 of each sex, jam nuts, bolts, etc. factored in your time, need for left and right handed taps, etc., $100 a pair doesn't sound too bad to me.
I am thinking really cheep since I have never had to adjust them once I got them set correct. I was thinking of something permanent using some threaded rod and some sort of end that has some movement in it. I have to pay a visit to the local HDW store and see if I can fab up something from the nuts/bolts isle.
erohslc wrote:
But by the time you've bought 4 good rodends, 2 of each sex, jam nuts, bolts, etc. factored in your time, need for left and right handed taps, etc., $100 a pair doesn't sound too bad to me.
Exactly. Good rod ends are not cheap. You don't really need left and right threads, just go all right hand threads and remove one end when you need to adjust them. But still.
Got any dimensions? Center to center length and hole size are the two useful ones. Find a junkyard donor that has bushings on the end of the correct size, cut them in half and weld together with a piece of pipe in the middle for the correct length.
I guess it is me just being cheep here. It just sees like a $25 part to me. A pare at $50 would seem reasonable but then again I guess there are a lot of little parts in there.
I think the other problem here is that they are used as a direct replacement / upgrade for the 911's and any part that is a performance part for a 911 triples the "normal" price.
Performance parts specific to the 944 line are usually much more reasonable.
I'm kinda in the same boat with my miata, but at least I know it's me being cheap, and not a porsche tax. I'll probably just buy the mazda motorsports set since they're reasonable in cost, and seem to be a pretty solid piece.
Speedway motors has all the parts you need to build those from scratch if you're so inclined.
Start with something like this:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Aluminum-Swedged-Rods-3-8-Inch-Thread,5891.html
I did find these and actually like that they have a grease fitting on them. Get a couple of lengths of threaded rod and some lock nuts the HDW store and for less than $30 I may have a replacement that is actually serviceable. If I could find them with a male with a L&R thread option a turnbuckle center would work. The down side is that they are steel so I would probably have to paint them. The question is are they strong enough for the intended use?
And a little more searching found them in male threaded ends (L&R) with a grease fitting. for $5 each. I think I am going to give this a try and see if it works. The key is going to be what the length of the turnbuckle is going to be that fits that thread. of I will need a smaller. OR if I can find a metric replacement that will work with the weltmister center section.
The search continues.
Those super-cheap rod ends will last about two weeks before they loosen up and start going clank clank clank clank. Get good teflon-lined ones, bonus points if you can find a shop that will build them to an F1 fit.
Make sure you don't reach the misalignment limit of the joints in your application as well or you'll rip them in half.
I have a big box in my garage of cheap, worn-out sway bar end/drop links with under-specified rod ends. Cheaping out here is going to cost you money in the long run.
Automotive steering tie rod ends are robust, inexpensive, weather proofed, and often available in left/right hand threads.
Some time searching the Moog (or equivalent) catalogs might pay off.
If you can use a ball joint end, go for it. That's the best option - but not all cars are able to do so.
speedway motors has aluminum 3/8" swaged tubes starting at 4" length and male hiem ends ranging from $6-$40.
The tubes are right and left hand threaded so you will need matching rod ends and left handed nuts.
With quality rod ends you might come in under the weltmeister price.
ditchdigger wrote:
speedway motors has aluminum 3/8" swaged tubes starting at 4" length and male hiem ends ranging from $6-$40.
The tubes are right and left hand threaded so you will need matching rod ends and left handed nuts.
With quality rod ends you might come in under the weltmeister price.
As a note, even with the 4" tube length, you're looking at something like 6" center to center. That won't work on my miata, but it would for my 911.(front bar is through body)
A tie rod end would be to massive (unless there are some really small ones out there). I will get some photos of the set up I have. The weltmister swaybar has the ability for infinite adjustment on either side and each sides adjustment is independent of the other. It does this with a clamping device that slides on the end of the swaybar. The stabilizer links then need to be adjustable length wise so you an have different length stabilizer lengths. I don't do this but I can see where this may be useful if you were tuning the suspension to a particular track configuration that say had a lot of slow left turns and a lot of high speed rights.
tpwalsh wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
speedway motors has aluminum 3/8" swaged tubes starting at 4" length and male hiem ends ranging from $6-$40.
The tubes are right and left hand threaded so you will need matching rod ends and left handed nuts.
With quality rod ends you might come in under the weltmeister price.
As a note, even with the 4" tube length, you're looking at something like 6" center to center. That won't work on my miata, but it would for my 911.(front bar is through body)
Makes cense as mine are about 6" long and this is the same piece that weltmister sells for 911 applications
I am going to see if I can find quality rod ends that will work with the center pieces of the weltmister stabilizer links
FYI - having different length arms on the ends of the sway bars will not lead to different stiffnesses on left and right turns. If you want stagger, you can do that by pre-loading the bar with different end link lengths so it's partly twisted when the car's at rest.
There are ball joints of the correct size out there. Heck, some cars come with them from the factory. They're rarely the cheapest option, but a good one.
Keith Tanner wrote:
FYI - having different length arms on the ends of the sway bars will not lead to different stiffnesses on left and right turns. If you want stagger, you can do that by pre-loading the bar with different end link lengths so it's partly twisted when the car's at rest.
There are ball joints of the correct size out there. Heck, some cars come with them from the factory. They're rarely the cheapest option, but a good one.
Probably getting off topic here but I thought that since the leverage on the bar was changed due to moving the mounting point on the bar closer to the pivot point it would make compression on that side of the car firmer and thus loading up the tire faster. I have always wondered about this because the two ends are connected. But the other side of my brain is saying that if it takes less movement to get the same deflection and loading of the tire it would then change the handling for that turning direction.
I am not disagreeing with you I have never tried it to see what would happen. It is one of those questions. Kind of like the airplane on a giant treadmill question. The laws of physics will always win I am just not sure how they will apply (in the case of the sway bar)
Ohya and for those that care the plain does take off. Myth Busters tested it. 
And I was surfing around and found this interesting list of stuff. For a BMW but probably easily modified for use on my car.
http://www.mwrench.com/Whitepapers/swaybarlinks.pdf
dean1484 wrote:
I am going to see if I can find quality rod ends that will work with the center pieces of the weltmister stabilizer links
Do this!
Why remake or buy the threaded rods when you have some already that are the correct length.
Just buy the correct heim joints in stainless steel & Teflon lineing and you should be good for a while. Covering the rod ends with small plastic bags and tie them shut should make them last longer. Anything that keeps dirt off them will extend their life.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#rod-ends/=m6i5za
dean1484 wrote:
Keith Tanner wrote:
FYI - having different length arms on the ends of the sway bars will not lead to different stiffnesses on left and right turns. If you want stagger, you can do that by pre-loading the bar with different end link lengths so it's partly twisted when the car's at rest.
There are ball joints of the correct size out there. Heck, some cars come with them from the factory. They're rarely the cheapest option, but a good one.
Probably getting off topic here but I thought that since the leverage on the bar was changed due to moving the mounting point on the bar closer to the pivot point it would make compression on that side of the car firmer and thus loading up the tire faster. I have always wondered about this because the two ends are connected. But the other side of my brain is saying that if it takes less movement to get the same deflection and loading of the tire it would then change the handling for that turning direction.
I am not disagreeing with you I have never tried it to see what would happen. It is one of those questions. Kind of like the airplane on a giant treadmill question. The laws of physics will always win I am just not sure how they will apply (in the case of the sway bar)
Ohya and for those that care the plain does take off. Myth Busters tested it.
The part your brain is missing is that the bar can rotate. If it was fixed to the chassis, you'd be right. Then it would be like the torsion bars that act as the springs on something like a 911 or an old Toyota pickup. But it's not. The twisting force is applied by both wheels (one side going up, one side going down) and the bar will rotate in the mounts so that the same force is applied at each end.
I've never understood why people have trouble with the airplane on the treadmill myself 
Although it's similar in one way - it's all about your frame of reference. Because the bar isn't fixed to the chassis, the chassis is not part of your equation.
Ok BUT... . . I understand that the sway bar rotates and is being pushed / pulled on by the say bar links that in turn are moved by the A arms. BUT if you change the point that you are applying force in relation to the fulcrum of the lever on one side compared to the other side it has to change the amount of leverage and how the bar resists / creates movement with a given amount of force. This is the part that the other side of my brain is having a hard time dismissing.
I think I need to make a scale model and break out the fish scales and see. Wait I don't think that would work. The problem here is we are looking at both angle of deflection and force and because you are applying a force at one end with a lever length of x and then that force is being transmitted to the other side and then being applied to the other A arm at say a lever length of 1/2x. even if the force is the same the amount of movement would be different due to the difference in the length of the lever so in this case a fish scale would not work as it measures increase force over a fixed linear motion and since the two motions are not the same due to the difference in the lever length a fish scale is not the correct measurement tool.
So the question is would the force that an a arm be applying through lever length x to one side of the sway bar be equal to the force being applied by the other side of the sway bar to the other a arm through a lever of 1/2x AND to complicate things since you have different length levers even if the force is the same the amount of motion would be different due to the lever length difference and thus would this change the loading characteristics and the handling of the car. .
Anyone else out there actually try this?
