1 2 3 4 ... 6
Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/3/22 2:54 p.m.

In reply to dannyp84 :

That's my theory as well. 

Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/3/22 3:19 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:

Remember that just recently lemachin on this forum had warranty coverage denied on his 2016 BRZ when the engine sang the song of its people, because the dealership had found that he'd done HPDEs with it, and this was in Ontario...so the problem isn't specific to Gulf States Toyota or even Toyota in general.

I do remember that. 

te72
te72 HalfDork
8/3/22 3:26 p.m.

Weird, the Subaru part of the Toyota was the first thing to go? Suuuuper weird. Big part of why I would choose an ND over a GT86, every time, even though the twins are great to drive.

 

"Finally, remember to be a responsible consumer of media. Check sources, even if it means just opening a second browser tab and googling the name of a person or a company. It seems a lot of the heat around this incident stems from information that is quickly thrown into the public sphere and lacks context. Sometimes, simply providing that context can help better ground a story in reality."

 

This. So much this. This should be the header, in bold, that you have to scroll past on ANY news site. Maybe then our critical thinking levels, as a society, will improve a bit. To note though, I'd rather someone be encouraged to *search* rather than use a specific (and frequently manipulative) search engine. =)

 

@Keith Tanner, did Mazda sort out the transmission issue by the time the ND2 was released? That's the version I'd be after anyhow.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
8/3/22 3:54 p.m.
  • Finally, remember to be a responsible consumer of media. Check sources, even if it means just opening a second browser tab and googling the name of a person or a company. It seems a lot of the heat around this incident stems from information that is quickly thrown into the public sphere and lacks context. Sometimes, simply providing that context can help better ground a story in reality.

Look I love this forum and this magazine. I've been helplessly wasting time reading these boards and subscribing to the magazine for decades. I find this statement comically ironic when comparing some of the narratives y'all were pedaling in 2020. I'm happy you're pushing people to validate sources, ensure stories have corroborating evidence, and ensuring that individuals do their due diligence before coming to a conclusion now. It's a sign of growth and wisdom. 

The amount of different variations of this story that have popped up across the plethora of mediums has been interesting. If there is one good thing to come of all the attention this has garnered, it is that big Toyota USA is now going to look into the issue. 

I'm curious if this will spark a joint effort by Subaru to do the same. 

The memes; however, have been absolutely excellent. 

GTI_2032
GTI_2032 GRM+ Memberand New Reader
8/3/22 3:59 p.m.

I second escalating to corporate if the dealer isn't playing ball.  Made the difference between paying for a transmission rebuild or having it covered under warranty.   May not always work but it doesn't hurt to try.  

BA5
BA5 GRM+ Memberand Reader
8/3/22 4:34 p.m.

Finally, remember to be a responsible consumer of media.

oooohhhooooo no you don't.  I have zero dog in the fight but I'm going to read the headline and get out the pitchforks!  My hot take on this is going out on every major media platform on the globe ASAP.

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
8/3/22 4:37 p.m.

te72, that was my exact response. It's a Subaru engine, pretty much what I'd suspect.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/3/22 4:39 p.m.

In reply to te72 :

As far as I know, the transmission problems have been sorted out. It wasn't an ND1/ND2 thing, it was a series of running changes to the trans with various VIN splits.

If I were running an ND trans on the track, I'd change out the case studs (fairly easy to do even with the trans in the car) and install a cooler. Our testing has shown that it's not that hard to get the transmission oil to 300F, and it stays there for a very long time once you've heat-soaked it. That'll give the trans the best chance of surviving.

Our development ND has a set of expensive aftermarket gears in it to ensure it doesn't break, but that's because we're not interested in testing transmissions and we can't afford down time in a testing program.

dps214
dps214 Dork
8/3/22 6:44 p.m.

IIRC there were like five revisions of nd1 trans, it seems like either they finally resolved it or most everyone has just stopped autocrossing them by now. The global cup cars got switched to a fancy racing sequential at some point. The nd2 has a dual mass flywheel and maybe another revision of transmission, and I don't think I've heard of any failing.

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
8/3/22 7:14 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Correct me if I am wrong, but Subaru played this same card many years ago when they had problems with weak gearboxes. They gave out free SCCA memberships ( or something similar) and then used the data from entry forms to deny warranty claims. 

 

Always tell the people that ask about the FRS that the only bad part is the Subaru part.

No Time
No Time SuperDork
8/3/22 7:21 p.m.

In reply to Hoondavan :

So I wonder which dealership employee is frustrated by not being able to match the times of the owner of the car?

My cynical side wonders if Toyota sitting back to watch what happens while the dealer taking the heat, and when they feel it's the right time they can jump in as the hero to cover the claim?

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/3/22 8:10 p.m.

Interesting to note that this is being picked up on by the Japanese as well...

(First comment roughly translated: 3,000 miles (4,800 km) after delivery, the engine seems to have locked up  Summer production  When going out, we recommend that you perform maintenance before going out )

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/3/22 8:13 p.m.

In reply to NOHOME :

I remember the same thing. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/3/22 10:17 p.m.
pointofdeparture said:

Interesting to note that this is being picked up on by the Japanese as well...

(First comment roughly translated: 3,000 miles (4,800 km) after delivery, the engine seems to have locked up  Summer production  When going out, we recommend that you perform maintenance before going out )

That's a screenshot from a video from months ago. And IIRC the car has just left the dealer, so I don't think it's related.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
8/3/22 10:34 p.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

Right, but if people are talking about the oil pickup getting clogged across the Pacific in Toyota/Subaru's homeland, that means that word is getting around, and I would guess similar things have been found there.

flatlander937
flatlander937 HalfDork
8/3/22 10:43 p.m.

I'm pretty close to the guy this happened to, though I don't have any super in depth info to share. What I DO have is a ton of memes.

 

 

 

 

 

I've got over 30 I made the last few days. If you're on any SCCA facebook groups you've probably seen most of them. Edit: figured out copy paste works pretty quick so a few more below.

flatlander937
flatlander937 HalfDork
8/3/22 10:48 p.m.

May be an image of 3 people and text that says 'GR86 OWNERS WITH IINL ENGINE FAILURES TOYOTA Jadult imgflip. com WHY ARE CAR ENTHUSIASTS BUYING OTHER VEHICLES?'

 

May be an image of 2 people and text that says 'TOYOTA PUTTING DOWN IT'S "GR" BRAND BECAUSE IT TURNS OUT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND CAR ENTHUSIASTS imgflip. com'

 

May be an image of 1 person and text that says 'Toyota Warranty enthusiast car for doing enthusiast car things OR draw 25 imgflip.c UNO'

 

May be a meme of 3 people and text that says 'TOYOTA PR TEAM RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE TRACK BRED" GR86 MARKETING imgflip.com'

 

May be an image of 2 people and text that says 'He's probably thinking about other women imgflip. com I wonder how much RTV is in the oil pickup of my GR86'

 

May be a cartoon of text

 

May be an image of 1 person and text that says 'TOYOTA GR86 OIL PICKUP TUBE YA'LL GOT ANY MORE OF THAT RTV mgflip. com'

 

May be a meme of 3 people and text that says 'You sealed the GR86 oil pan right? Of course. I used 3 tubes. imgflip. com'

 

May be an image of dog and text that says 'Such GR86 So Toyota Moderate vroom Much RTV imgflip.com Such voided warranty'

 

May be a meme of text that says 'MOTORSPORTS ENTHUSIAST BASE TOYOTA MOTORSPORTS ENTHUSIASTBASE REALITY OF SUPPORTING ENTHUSIASTS TOYOTA'

 

May be an image of 5 people and text that says 'TOYOTA GR86 FANBASE mgflip. imgflip.com com TOYOTA NOT SUPPORTING ENTHUSIASTS'

 

May be an anime-style image of text that says 'TOYOTA 果 DECLINES WARRANTY DUE TO AUTOCROSS IS THIS HOW YOU BUILD A PERFORMANCE CAR BRAND? imaflip.com'

 

May be an image of text that says 'When-Toyota When Toyota realized they sealed the deal with Subaru Using ALL the RTV imgflip.com'

 

May be an image of 1 person and text that says 'MAZDA WATCHING TOYOTA GENERATE MIATA SALES imgflip com'

 

May be a meme of text that says 'TOYOTA: LETS BUILD AN ENTHUSIAST SPORTS CAR PUT A SUBARU ENGINE INSIDE IT APPLY TOO MUCH RTV FROM THE FACTORYTO CLOG PICKUP SCREENS DECLINE WARRANTY WHEN ENGINE FAILS AT TOYOTA-PAID TRACK DAY imgtlip cOm'

 

May be an image of text that says 'TOYOTA GR86 YES YES, LET THE RTV FLOW THROUGH YOU'

 

May be an image of 3 people and text that says 'TO-BE GR86 OWNER WITH DEPOSIT DOWN MA EXCESS RTV IN OIL PAN TOYOTA VOIDING WARRANTY TOYOTA PROVIDED PROW TRACK DAY mofp.com'

 

There are a few spicier ones out there I won't post here.

CrustyRedXpress
CrustyRedXpress GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
8/3/22 11:49 p.m.

In reply to engiekev :

I think that is 100% status quo for Porsche. Their handling of the IMS, d-chunk, and bore scoring issues with the m96/97 was pretty bad. Reading all of the BS denials really turned me off the brand...regardless of how cool they look!

 

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
8/4/22 9:55 a.m.

Quick update: I talked to Blake yesterday around 5:30, and a lot had happened in the previous 24 hours since the story broke.

Long story short, the issue reached Toyota corporate, and they have expressed to him that they are going to take care of him under warranty. Aside from that, there's really not much I can say because the rest of the situation is now under investigation to determine what information that got out to the public was true, what was hyperbole, what was outright false, and who might have been responsible for the mishandling of this claim, or whether the claim was handled properly but the policy was bad, or a million other permutations of situations to determine how it went from a guy buying a brand-new car that should theoretically be able to handle such use to a guy with a broken car and an internet firestorm.

Another matter at hand is the matter of the assembly of the engines in question, and whether there is indeed a production problem with them leading to this failure. There is anecdotal evidence in the public sphere at the moment showing that this RTV situation might not be an isolated incident. Anecdotes are not data, but anecdotes are worthy of further exploration to determine whether data is present, and it is our understanding that that is the point Toyota is currently at. We're pursuing that line of investigation and we'll keep you updated when we know stuff.

Another, more holistic question emerges from this incident that affects all of us, though: As car manufacturers lean more heavily in to using track performance as a marketing tool, how does this marketing model on the front end affect the service model on the back end? If you pitch a car as a track day monster, are you obliged to service it as such? That's a much bigger and more far reaching question that we'l be discussing in editorial meetings, and hopefully with manufacturer reps in the near future.

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/4/22 10:06 a.m.

Thank you for continuing to stamp out the raging  fires of asshat-ism.

 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/4/22 10:10 a.m.
JG Pasterjak said:

Another, more holistic question emerges from this incident that affects all of us, though: As car manufacturers lean more heavily in to using track performance as a marketing tool, how does this marketing model on the front end affect the service model on the back end? If you pitch a car as a track day monster, are you obliged to service it as such? That's a much bigger and more far reaching question that we'l be discussing in editorial meetings, and hopefully with manufacturer reps in the near future.

I would say that if you're marketing a car for track use, you should not be denying warranty coverage simply because the car was used on track (or closed parking lot). Unfortunately that seems to be the more common arrangement, oddly one rare exception to this rule is that Toyota in the UK has explicitly stated that track use will not void warranties on the GR86.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/4/22 10:21 a.m.
GameboyRMH said:
JG Pasterjak said:

Another, more holistic question emerges from this incident that affects all of us, though: As car manufacturers lean more heavily in to using track performance as a marketing tool, how does this marketing model on the front end affect the service model on the back end? If you pitch a car as a track day monster, are you obliged to service it as such? That's a much bigger and more far reaching question that we'l be discussing in editorial meetings, and hopefully with manufacturer reps in the near future.

I would say that if you're marketing a car for track use, you should not be denying warranty coverage simply because the car was used on track (or closed parking lot). Unfortunately that seems to be the more common arrangement, oddly one rare exception to this rule is that Toyota in the UK has explicitly stated that track use will not void warranties on the GR86.

Agreed, like I said on the Facebook page. It's a cop out. Just like Nissan including launch control on the GTR and then denying drivetrain coverage if you actually used a feature they included. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/4/22 10:24 a.m.

Also thanks JG, perfect example of why I've subscribed to this mag for almost 20 years. 

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/4/22 10:34 a.m.

Somewhat off topic, but a question for the GRM guys.

IIRC, Honda gave you guys a Civic Si to play with and use at track days. Did they ever say anything about how the use in such a way would affect the warranty, or being that it was a loaner (I think?) that point never came up and was not discussed?

Peabody
Peabody MegaDork
8/4/22 11:11 a.m.

I read a few of the articles online and didn't think either of them were irresponsible in any way. Neither blamed anybody, and only reported on what the situation was. Guy blows up fairly new sports car during autocross, warranty claim is denied based on a picture, and and there seems to be other instances of similar engine problems. Were they quick to report something without all the facts? Maybe, but I don't think they claimed to know all the facts, either.

From the original FB post:

I inspected the motor and took photos of the oil pickup and the excess sealant which I showed to the Service Manager and Toyota Corporate. I explained to Toyota Corporate that according to the Service Manager, the FTS had still not been to the dealership to physically inspect the motor even after the sealant issue was raised. The case manager with Toyota Corporate stated she had taken it as high as the Regional Manager for Gulf States Toyota and everyone involved is standing by the FTS and Dealers decision.

I spoke with the Service Manager at the Dealer and requested further escalation or consideration for a goodwill claim. He did not entertain this nor any other compromise on the repair (50/50, parts only, labor only, etc.) and stated that he valued the dealerships reputation with Toyota and did not want to compromise that by approving something the FTS and Toyota Corporate had already determined was not warrantable.

In this instance, I think the media did their job, and the FB post served a customer well who appeared to be getting the shaft by not only the dealer , but Toyota corporate as well. If FB was the only tool I had left I would have used it in the same way.

 

1 2 3 4 ... 6
Our Preferred Partners
sELx1rptUqUouL7gqnRJkZlxXiaYI0UCbAL97tAAClsbEc5TPlz6S70Kvv42Kf8X