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Junkyard_Dog
Junkyard_Dog Dork
10/14/10 7:10 a.m.
92dxman wrote: I've kinda moved onto tinkering with bikes as well.

This also happens quite a bit. At least five of my "car friends" have moved on to bikes and drive appliances now. Personally, I can kill myself perfectly fine with 4 wheels. No need to speed things up by taking 2 away.

docwyte
docwyte Reader
10/14/10 10:06 a.m.

Have you seen the sticker prices of STI's and Evo's lately? They're more like $40k plus. Even with the "Dr". in front of my name that's a lot of cash for a car like that and more than I'd like to pay for it...

IMGT3_Performance
IMGT3_Performance New Reader
10/15/10 9:19 a.m.
Junkyard_Dog wrote:
92dxman wrote: I've kinda moved onto tinkering with bikes as well.
This also happens quite a bit. At least five of my "car friends" have moved on to bikes and drive appliances now. Personally, I can kill myself perfectly fine with 4 wheels. No need to speed things up by taking 2 away.

Brilliant comment! "I can kill myself perfectly fine with 4 wheels. No need to speed things up by taking 2 away" I think that is going up on my fridge at home.

IMGT3_Performance
IMGT3_Performance New Reader
10/15/10 9:22 a.m.
docwyte wrote: Have you seen the sticker prices of STI's and Evo's lately? They're more like $40k plus. Even with the "Dr". in front of my name that's a lot of cash for a car like that and more than I'd like to pay for it...

+1 That is why I went to a used E46 M3. It was between an E46 M3, lightly used Evo X MR and lightly used STi. The prices of the Evo X and STi were ridiculous in my mind so I went to the M.

SilverFleet
SilverFleet HalfDork
10/15/10 11:39 a.m.

Some observations:

It seems car culture has split into a few new subdivisions in recent years. Notably, I've seen a trend for people either going one way (super expensive builds of muscle cars, tuner cars, exotics, etc) or cheap, functional beater builds (like many of us on the GRM boards favor). This applies to all aspects of car culture. Look at how popular the cheap racing series stuff has gotten, and look at the popularity of Rat Rods, the GRM Challenge, etc. At the same time, the Hot Import Nights show circuit, the World of Wheels circuit, and others like that remain popular as well.

The strange thing that I've seen as I've gotten older (I'm 28) is that people are beginning to blur the stratifications of the Muscle Car scene, the Sport Compact scene, and many other subsects of car culture. There are trends, but I don't see a dominant one these days like there used to be. Maybe that's why the Sport Compact scene has dwindled. It has been absorbed into the larger sum of car culture.

The fanboy types are still around, but that behavior seems frowned upon these days. I'm on a number of forums for a variety of different vehicles, and most people own a number of different vehicles. The fanboys are usually ridiculed! The guys that have 5 or 6 of the same car are starting to dwindle.

For instance, right now, I have a 2009 Subaru WRX, a pair of 1979 Pontiac Trans Ams (one is for sale) and a 1987 Shelby Dodge CSX. I have a list of cars that I want down the road, and they are all over the map. They include full-size body-on-frame beasts, trucks, vans, drag cars, road course cars, 4-wheel drive zombie apocalypse vehicles, traditional hot rods, etc. Most car enthusiasts I know are the same way!

C/N: the Sport Compact scene isn't dead, it has been absorbed into greater car culture.

mndsm
mndsm Dork
10/15/10 11:46 a.m.

+1 one to that. I personally don't think it's faded at all either. Ask anyone that I see on a regular Wed. around our cruise spots, and it's still a packed house. But instead of neon and gullwing doors, people are more concerned with going faster. And those cars tend to look more normal.

SilverFleet
SilverFleet HalfDork
10/15/10 11:52 a.m.
mndsm wrote: +1 one to that. I personally don't think it's faded at all either. Ask anyone that I see on a regular Wed. around our cruise spots, and it's still a packed house. But instead of neon and gullwing doors, people are more concerned with going faster. And those cars tend to look more normal.

Exactly!!! Go is more important than show, and that's the way it should be.

dj06482
dj06482 GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/15/10 12:26 p.m.
SilverFleet wrote: It seems car culture has split into a few new subdivisions in recent years.

I'm a good example of this. I'm a Chevy guy at heart who owns a Dodge truck, a Toyota SUV, a Honda minivan, and an E36. Oh, and I love Mustangs and just about any muscle car (older or modern). Actually, like a lot of guys on here, there are very few vehicles I really don't like. Each has their own advantages and disadvantages, for sure, but I can appreciate just about anything with 4 wheels.

The funny thing is that I'm on at least one forum for every single one of those vehicles, so I don't have much time to devote to one vehicle. Granted, I'm in mostly maintenance mode on my vehicles right now, but I still like to see what's going on and what people are doing. I have friends who own things like STIs and B13 SE-Rs, so they've taught me a lot about their cars (it helps that both are on my personal bucket list).

As I get older, my automotive needs change. When I bought my truck, it had a BFI intake on it, and I recently scrounged eBay and forums to put it back to a stock intake. Why? It was just too loud and obnoxious (well, the Magnaflow duals don't help the situation - but I'm keeping them ). Unfortunately, most sport compacts right now won't fit two of the gargantuan car seats that we chose for our kids, so have to compromise in vehicle choice. I did give in and throw a carseat in the back of the E36, and the kids love taking a ride in dad's "race car."

Even though I spend far less time on cars that I did in the past, my goal is to always have one "fun" vehicle around. I'm hoping that'll help to pass on a love of vehicles to my kids.

hotg54b
hotg54b New Reader
10/15/10 2:41 p.m.

Personally, I never really got into the Sport Compact Scene like many of my friends did. I just couldn't understand putting so much money into a Civic, Neon, or any FWD econobox for that matter. I maybe bias, since I never owned a FWD car personally.

Those that grew up in the Sport Compact Scene IMO have moved on like most here have seen and the following generation of drivers just aren't into cars. Alot of the younger generation I know just want a car that is functional and reliable.

PS122
PS122 Reader
10/17/10 9:18 a.m.

I think it also has a lot to do with the age of us who were part of that scene. I'm in my mid-thirties now and much of my time is taken up with my kids' activities. I have a CRX for the occasional autocross but am no longer interested hanging out at the local cruise spots 'til the wee hours of the night.

92dxman
92dxman HalfDork
10/17/10 10:20 a.m.

In reply to Junkyard_Dog:

Only bicycles at this point. I thought about a motorbike but decided to hold off until maybe down the road and after taking the msf course to see if it is something I want to continue going forward with.

Keith
Keith GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/23/10 12:39 a.m.

I found the sport compact scene! I'm in Seattle this weekend, and there are Civics with wings, big tips and dodgy bodykits roaming the streets. It's like stepping back in time.

kreb
kreb GRM+ Memberand Dork
10/23/10 8:34 a.m.

A lot of the Sport Compact guys simply grew up, meaning that they either lost interest, or realized the folly of their ways. In Northern California there are many SC guys that now are legitimate motorheads of the first order, and can be found running autocross and road race events every weekend.

Speediot
Speediot New Reader
10/23/10 11:26 p.m.

Keith is right. The street racers are out every weekend in the Seattle area. Groups of 100 plus cars gather and move around looking for places to race. Mostly Civics and WRXs.

Half-dozen or more killed every year, either themselves or innocents on the freeways.

Tom F
Tom F New Reader
10/24/10 6:27 a.m.
Keith wrote: I found the sport compact scene! I'm in Seattle this weekend, and there are Civics with wings, big tips and dodgy bodykits roaming the streets. It's like stepping back in time.

Haha, I happen upon groups like that once in a while too, it always brings back memories lol.

Merc
Merc New Reader
10/24/10 3:55 p.m.

I've noticed that the SCS has kinda changed it's perception on things a bit. As always personalizing had always had a heart in things. As it grew and became more abundant, it seems people with sport compacts spend a lot more time getting a collection of rare parts. It doesn't seem like going fast is the only thing now a days. Just having something unique is what seems to be the rave. Although when I do drive my Civic around a bit, I occasionally get Civics and WRX's with custom paint schemes trying to race me. Kind of a shame because about half of those cars blow smoke out of their exhaust.

Besides that, you can pick up a 2nd hand WRX, EVO, 350Z or other 250+hp car for a good price now a days.

Spinout007
Spinout007 GRM+ Memberand Dork
10/24/10 5:28 p.m.

That is my goal for next year. Something newer than 18-20 years old with space for us and the dogs. Preferably boosted from the factory. I finally got my driving record cleared up for the first time in 13 years. Track days have definitely helped with curbing my urges to push it on the street. Personally I am glad the days of riced cars are gone, now if I just had a portable, aimable EMP for asshat in traffic making me listen to their bass I would be happy.

skeze
skeze New Reader
10/24/10 5:31 p.m.

I know exactly what happened!!!

one day I went to the grocery store and bought a Super street magazine flipped through it ,bought it took it home...got home started reading a section that was about the do's and don'ts for each class of cars Time attack,old school,JDM,VIPand something else They split these groups in two The win side and the fail side The fail side of each category was a past feature car that the bucket of Colonel Sanders back in the day,and they made those cars and the builders of those cars to be dim witted dumb asses, when in reality they were singing their praises just a few short years earlier..that is when people realized it's not about personality or originality any more it's all about coaxing a tsunami out of a ripple ...Ironically that is what the OG's accomplished and then were ridiculed in return ...

the Scene went south because the new scensters have no respect for roots

JoeyM
JoeyM Dork
10/24/10 5:48 p.m.

Once a trend grows into a "scene" it has already gone south....At that point, everybody does what everybody else is doing. Where's the fun in that?

STS_ZX2
STS_ZX2 New Reader
10/24/10 6:43 p.m.
Ian F wrote: The drop in ST and STS numbers at local autocross has much to do with the stagnation of the rules vs. the cars that people own and modify these days. Whereas back in the day, common bolt-on mods would put you in an ST class, today those rules are rather restricting and common mods put the car into SM. The Philly region is the same way - typically more than a dozen SM cars of all shapes and styles and only a handful of ST/STS/STX cars. At Nationals, there are still competitors who want to compete and prep an ST car to the extent of the rules, but at the local level those are fewer in number.

The Street Touring rules have not changed that much...the exception being that an AC takeback went in for 2008 and there will be an Aero tackback for 2011. I'd rather see what you call stagnation insomuch as that translates into stability. I think the answer is more obvious (as to why ST fields are shrnking)...

The ST class has become "SpecCivic". Anyone wo does not want to build an EF Si is pretty much left to struggle for the scraps--this is a pretty much a fact in any region that has a decently built and averagely-driven EF. Get a well-built and well-driven ST Civic, and its all but all-over for anyone else. It is clearly the fact when looking at Nationals since 2007...2006 was the last year that a non-EF was in the trophies. Locals in the Regions that have ST EF-Civics have figured out that they are better off going to SP or SM--and end up with a faster car that is more competetive. STX is going the same way. ST Civics have been consistanty faster than STX cars at most tours and at Nationals over the last few years--and now this year ST Civics took 1st and 3rd...in STX.

Street Touring is supposed to be reorganized (soon)--and until that happens, it seems pretty pointless to attempt to develop someting other than the status-quo...and that is what we are seeing with the reduced ST fields. People are just taking their toys to a different sandbox...

irish44j
irish44j HalfDork
10/24/10 6:51 p.m.

I don't know if it has been mentioned or not, but the "fall" of the ST classes is dependent on area maybe. I know a ton of people that run it around here (especially STX/STU in WRXs and STis). That said, one reason that alot of the turbo cars no longer run ST is the restrictions on increased boost/tuning. Alot of turbo cars now have TERRIBLE tunes from the factory (if you'd like to see the a/f on my 09 wrx, you'll agree). So many (like me) bump to stage 1 just to get better streetability of the car. Unfortunately, this isn't ST legal, so it's up to SM or SP for me, unless I revert to stock tune for events. And again, the stock tune suck so bad I don't know if I want to do that. Thank the gov't for emissions regulations, and SCCA for not.

Also the large amount of other clubs doing autocross takes away from SCCA. I didn't run SCCA this year, but instead ran with the local BMW club, which had 4 classes for non-BMW cars (based on displacement/rotary/turbo/r-comp combinations). That let me build my car the way I want to - rather than try to stick to SCCA regs, which in some cases are pretty out of touch with what people do for mods these days.

Example: Subaru people love to get the 4-point underbrace. It really tightens the car up and makes it a better daily driver (especially over lousy roads). But it's not legal for ST since it's a crossbrace. SCCA acts like it is some kind of uber-high-performance mod that will give unfair advantage for autocross....when on some cars it doesn't help autocross at all - it's just good for street driving.

Not gonna go on about SCCA much more, but the increasingly complex rules turn off people who spend 99% of their time DRIVING their cars and not solo-ing them.

Hell, by the letter of the rules, I don't think you can even debadge a stock-class car, lol.....as if that changes its performance or something.

--

As to "sport compact scene" in general - I think it's just as big as it ever was - and perhaps even more supported by large sponsors as in years past for that matter. But as many of "us" get older, we probably aren't as involved with it, so it may just be a perception that it is "fading" when in reality it isn't?

Either way, I was never really into the "scene" anyhow (aside from autocross, but I drove a Triumph, a Maxima, and now a WRX....none of which were traditionally part of "the scene.").....nor do I care if big "import tuner meets" happen or not...

RoosterSauce
RoosterSauce New Reader
10/24/10 7:13 p.m.

In about thirty years or so, old guys having their mid-life crises will want to relive their youth, and will do restomods on "classic" Honda Civics. Fart cans, primered body kits, and NAWZ stickers will be cool all over again.

Junkyard_Dog
Junkyard_Dog Dork
10/24/10 8:06 p.m.
RoosterSauce wrote: In about thirty years or so, old guys having their mid-life crises will want to relive their youth, and will do restomods on "classic" Honda Civics. Fart cans, primered body kits, and NAWZ stickers will be cool all over again.

Not true. All the old guys (older than me anyway) with the 60s/70s cars have nice ones now because they couldn't afford nice ones when they were younger. The same will happen with the tooner scene. They guys that started in Civics than went to WRXs and finally to (presumably) BMWs will look for a decent old Civic and a NOS body kit and pay someone to build them the car of their dreams. Just like the street rodders when I was a kid and the muscle car guys when I was in high school. You can already see the 70s cars and styles appreciating right now, even into the 80s. Hell a mid-80s car qualifies for vintage plates in most states now! Soon the guys that never threw out their pre-China strut braces will dig them out of the attic and have eBay gold and a whole new vintage JDM fad will start up. Todays interest in early JDM stuff (as sometimes featured in GRM) is just the tip of the iceberg. Its gonna be HUGE!

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro Dork
10/24/10 8:21 p.m.

Funny,

I did the 70's / 80's import thing about 5 years ago with a few cars, right when the F&F crap was getting going.

There was very little aftermarket for the early Toyota offerings and it was all expensive.

I got tired of it, sold off my Mod class Starlet and gave up on Japanese cars for a few years.

I went back to muscle cars and hotrods, I still have them and they're still fun.

We retired my wife's 1982 TE72 Corolla from it's daily driver duties and I thought, rather than sell it, why not autocross / hillclimb the wee out of it until my MG Midget project is done.

I started looking for buildup parts for it at the beginning of the week and I discovered that there's WAY more stuff available, even for TE72 Corollas and it's WAY cheaper than it was before.

Looks like I'm moving back to sport compacts a bit.

BTW, I'm class of '96 so it's the 5.0 Mustangs for my group.

Shawn

stealthfighter1
stealthfighter1 Reader
10/24/10 10:19 p.m.

cops harrasing everyone with a sport compact on th street, making it unaffordable and not particularly fun to have a sport compact...especially if you're a young person ... idk just a thought.

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