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Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
9/23/22 10:28 a.m.
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Does everyone really need the ability to hit highway speeds in less than 3 seconds? What if you could trade some acceleration for range? Or maybe add in some lightness? 

If you could design the perfect EV for you, what would it look like?

Would it be as big as the new Hummer or smaller than the Ioniq 5? Luxurious …

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Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
9/23/22 10:30 a.m.

Trick question, the real answer is Citicar:

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 10:34 a.m.

Would be willing to trade some acceleration for lightness, it would have to be AWD for sure - EV torque is too much to be bottlenecked by 2 wheels. Basically I'm thinking something like an electric Celica (but with something more like a Lotus Evora profile). Individual wheel-motors in the front, one larger motor in the rear running through a shiftable transaxle for fun and improved high-speed performance. Maybe small individual wheel-motors geared to the rear axle shafts as well for improved traction?

A smaller battery with a generator-cart utility trailer could give it good range and ensure that you always reach the track with a full charge without having to haul a lot of excess equipment around.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
9/23/22 10:35 a.m.

Something around the size of a Honda Element with the fold up seats, flat rubber floor and at least a 3500lb towing capacity.

Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
9/23/22 10:36 a.m.
GameboyRMH said:

A smaller battery with a generator-cart utility trailer could give it good range and ensure that you always reach the track with a full charge without having to haul a lot of excess equipment around.

I like the idea of an OEM selling something like that as a dealer-installed accessory.

Heck, maybe you could even rent one from U-Haul. 

bruceman
bruceman Reader
9/23/22 10:39 a.m.

For me it would be an SUV capable of towing the racecar to the track.

Toyman!
Toyman! GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 10:41 a.m.

I would love for Ford to build a Lightning with an extended cab, 8' bed, 10-second 0-60, and a 500-mile range. Strip it down, white, vinyl, minimal options. Instead, they are building a sub 5 second terror with a crew cab and not enough bed to work out of. Build me a damn service truck, not a drag truck. That's where electrics will shine. 

bruceman
bruceman Reader
9/23/22 10:58 a.m.

For me it would be an SUV capable of towing the racecar to the track.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 10:59 a.m.

In reply to Toyman! :

Remember that the drag truck is the side effect of a long range truck. Those big batteries can discharge faster, so you accidentally get ridiculous performance. If you built a 500 mile range F150 that could only do a 10 second 0-60, that's because it has very low power motors which I suspect you don't want because then that 8' bed would have to stay empty.

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/23/22 11:00 a.m.

Does the capability to go 0-100 in 5 seconds really decrease overall range? I thought that was just a byproduct of the capabilities of the installed parts and in fact not a trade-off to range capability. 

 

And GRM-folk dream EV would be able to tow 9k lbs for 500 miles without recharging while costing under $30k. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 11:01 a.m.
Colin Wood said:
GameboyRMH said:

A smaller battery with a generator-cart utility trailer could give it good range and ensure that you always reach the track with a full charge without having to haul a lot of excess equipment around.

I like the idea of an OEM selling something like that as a dealer-installed accessory.

Heck, maybe you could even rent one from U-Haul. 

The fun part here is how to get power from the trailer to the car, especially some random car.

Better would be self-propelled trailer, but then you'd have to standardize on the communication protocol. Not insurmountable but necessary.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 11:02 a.m.
yupididit said:

And GRM-folk dream EV would be able to tow 9k lbs for 500 miles without recharging while costing under $30k. 

Heck, let's see that truck regardless of powertrain type :)

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/23/22 11:06 a.m.

A Ioniq 5 but 7/8 scale or similar sized 4 door hatch

0-60 in <7 seconds

a Torsen diff

$25k

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
9/23/22 11:07 a.m.

I believe that I have said this often, but here it is again.

 

A minivan with the external form factor of the Canoo with the frunk like the F150 has with enough battery to go 300 miles and recharge as fast as a Tesla for roadtrips, airy seating for eight (not like the Canoo), 0-60 in around 6-7 seconds is fine. RWD or AWD or FWD I don't even care. I'm a buyer today at $40K.

 

Basically take Rivian and put their efforts towards hauling people affordably instead of making an amazing off road rig.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
9/23/22 11:08 a.m.
yupididit said:

Does the capability to go 0-100 in 5 seconds really decrease overall range? I thought that was just a byproduct of the capabilities of the installed parts and in fact not a trade-off to range capability. 

 

And GRM-folk dream EV would be able to tow 9k lbs for 500 miles without recharging while costing under $30k. 

Generally speaking the really fast EVs have multiple motors. For my use in normal driving, one is plenty.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
9/23/22 11:08 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:

In reply to Toyman! :

Remember that the drag truck is the side effect of a long range truck. Those big batteries can discharge faster, so you accidentally get ridiculous performance. If you built a 500 mile range F150 that could only do a 10 second 0-60, that's because it has very low power motors which I suspect you don't want because then that 8' bed would have to stay empty.

I thought Accidental Performance would be a cool band name.

Then I decided to feed it into an AI image generator.

Accidental performance

Toyman!
Toyman! GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 11:08 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'm putting service personnel in them. I don't care if they are slow. One motor, 2wd, and the big battery are all I need. The motor isn't going to draw more than it can. A bigger battery and small motor make for longer ranges and less chance of a service tech wrapping it around a tree. It also makes for a cheaper truck. 

My standard work truck is a Silverado 1500, standard cab, 4.3 V6. It's plenty fast enough, 9 seconds 0-60 +-. It will tow a trailer 200 miles without stopping for gas. It's cheap. Build me the electric version of that. Until then, I'm not interested. 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 11:09 a.m.
yupididit said:

Does the capability to go 0-100 in 5 seconds really decrease overall range? I thought that was just a byproduct of the capabilities of the installed parts and in fact not a trade-off to range capability.

The capability to go from 0-100 quickly and have a long range actually require the same thing - a large battery pack, for discharge capability in terms of acceleration, and for overall capacity in terms of range. A supercapacitor setup might allow for improved acceleration with a smaller pack but nobody's done that yet.

There's also not much tradeoff between power and efficiency. The only things you can sacrifice to gain other things with an EV are capacity/acceleration for lightness (until supercaps are worked out), and to a slight degree range for grip (via tires).

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 11:17 a.m.
Toyman! said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'm putting service personnel in them. I don't care if they are slow. One motor, 2wd, and the big battery are all I need. The motor isn't going to draw more than it can. A bigger battery and small motor make for longer ranges and less chance of a service tech wrapping it around a tree. It also makes for a cheaper truck. 

My standard work truck is a Silverado 1500, standard cab, 4.3 V6. It's plenty fast enough, 9 seconds 0-60 +-. It will tow a trailer 200 miles without stopping for gas. It's cheap. Build me the electric version of that. Until then, I'm not interested. 

I'm gonna start marketing an accelerator pedal remapper that limits acceleration to 9s 0-60 - a bit faster than a 1990 Miata.

Small motor doesn't really make for longer range (it's not like an ICE), but it does mean the truck will struggle more with a load. If you want anything in that trailer, you're going to need a motor that can move it. And if you only want the truck to do 0-60 in 9s with that hardware, it's going to need an artificial limiter. EVs work different and have different compromises, we have to get our collective heads around that. Don't assume the fast electric truck is giving something up to be fast.

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/23/22 11:19 a.m.

NA Miata with a 200 mile range (322 KM) would be the answer here.

frenchyd
frenchyd GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 11:22 a.m.
Toyman! said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'm putting service personnel in them. I don't care if they are slow. One motor, 2wd, and the big battery are all I need. The motor isn't going to draw more than it can. A bigger battery and small motor make for longer ranges and less chance of a service tech wrapping it around a tree. It also makes for a cheaper truck. 

My standard work truck is a Silverado 1500, standard cab, 4.3 V6. It's plenty fast enough, 9 seconds 0-60 +-. It will tow a trailer 200 miles without stopping for gas. It's cheap. Build me the electric version of that. Until then, I'm not interested. 

I agree with the bigger battery smaller motor approach. But I want fast charge times so after 2-3 hours on the road I can stop, go to the bathroom, maybe grab a bite and be back on the road in 15-20 minutes with another 150 + miles of range.   That's what I understand batteries   sweet spots are,  30% to 70%. 
 I'm not stupid enough to think I need to drive 9 or 10 hours without stopping. 
     Towing, I'll keep a light weight, very low profile. No sense in hauling a garage behind me.   Plus I'll only carry what is required to service and do basic repairs. 
  Major repairs,  the car gets hauled back on the trailer and goes home.  No more all night thrash to go out there and drive like a zombie

  I just read Kieth Tanner.   OK I'll take the bigger motor.  But I want a lighter smaller truck. Regular cab, short box.  If I want to carry something 8 foot long I'll put the tailgate down and strap it in.  Plus short is easier to park and live with.  All Aluminum  !!!   

IamFODI
IamFODI New Reader
9/23/22 11:27 a.m.

A Porsche Taycan Sport Turismo GTS with two small-to-moderate motors on the rear axle (for torque vectoring) and no motor up front.

Toyman!
Toyman! GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 11:27 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

The fact is, it does. It takes more energy to accelerate a truck to 60 in 4 seconds than it does to accelerate the same weight to 60 in 9 seconds. That is a fact. That extra energy comes straight off the range. Also a fact. I don't give a damn how they limit it but until they do, I'm not interested. 

Wrap your head around this. Would you be willing to pull a guy off the street, strap him into a truck that is as fast, or nearly as fast as your V8 Miata, and send him out into city traffic to run service 8 hours a day, 5 days a week? I can only imagine the hit my already super-expensive commercial insurance policy would be if all of my trucks were faster than the average sports car. Hard pass. 

And probably more important. I'm not shelling out $80k for a service truck. They can build a $30k ICE truck. If they put their minds to it they can do the same with an electric. Unfortunately, that's not where the profit is. 

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
9/23/22 11:34 a.m.

Full electric 6 passenger that isn't crazy $

frenchyd
frenchyd GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/23/22 11:35 a.m.

In reply to Toyman! :

according to Consumer reports the average electric costs are 3.8 cents per mile. While the average ICE is 18.18 cents per mile. Now my truck gets the 22 mpg that's based on but my electric cost would be lower.  
    As for too fast?   How about a block of wood under the throttle pedal?   

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