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STM317
STM317 PowerDork
5/29/22 5:17 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

A lot of that lost post is no longer correct, if it ever was.

Since 2017, most homeowners are better off taking the large, standard deduction than they would be itemizing and trying to get some morgage tax deduction

Inflation and wages are absolutely not tied in any proportion:

https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106973544-1636566800338-20211110-mobile-fallback-472dp-inflation-is-outpacing-wage-growth.png?v=1636566805

 

I understand why suburbs appeal to many, but they're definitely not the answer long term. They're only the answer because we've set them up that way with current regulations. Changing some zoning to allow for more mixed use or dense housing in urban areas would increase supply and drop prices there. It would allow those who want to live there to reduce their dependence on a personal vehicle and all of it's associated costs. Less commuting to/from suburbs would reduce fuel demand, emissions, and wear/tear on our infrastructure, while keeping adequate tax base in our urban areas.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
5/29/22 8:19 p.m.

In reply to STM317 :

As I've said, beware of numbers.  If you look too close you will always get false information.   Step back and the longer view tends to yield the better, truer picture. 
    Mass transit has too many limits  to be viable. Think of a spider web. If you are in the center getting to the edges is straightforward.  But if you need to move along the edges  it gets very hard if everything has to go to the center first. 
   Covering all the possible  routes would cheapest/ most efficiently be handled not by buses but by taxi cabs. (Uber?)  Mass transits only works for a limited portion. Not at all for rural and only a very limited section of suburban  

  By the way dense population in urban centers is already serviced by EV's except they are called elevators. 

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
5/31/22 11:07 a.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to STM317 
Single family homes just aren't going Happen.  Maybe a few really tough fixer uppers in bad neighborhoods. But that's not really the elevator.  So the suburbs will be the answer. 

There is a big part of the problem. The zoning laws in this country force people into the suburbs because we can't build townhouses or smaller houses on smaller lots so housing in town is unaffordable. We can't build walkable neighborhoods because zoning doesn't allow for local shops/restaurants. This also makes mass transit much more difficult. 

So as a result basically we are forcing people to live a car dependent life even if they don't want to.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
5/31/22 1:20 p.m.

I see this isn't really about EVs any more.  I just stopped into to say that yes, Suburbs are the work of the devil.

QuasiMofo (John Brown)
QuasiMofo (John Brown) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/31/22 3:01 p.m.

Mass transit works in metropolitan areas and in countries like Japan and England because of the previous infrastructure investment and simply because generations of people are used to it. North Americans (Canada and Mexico included) are happy to travel their massive land mass at the spur of a moment in their personal commuter device and it will be a colder day in Hell, Michigan before someone tells them they can't. 

I have decided to convert the Model T in the pole barn to EV using a dual 72V golf cart conversion. I blame Enablers Unanimous. 

bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter)
bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
5/31/22 5:16 p.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

It is not. I pointed out that the North American made DOT certified 80 mph 100 mile range model T ev is available for purchase for and it went unremarked. (solo) It is $18,000 and change compared to a model T which would be over $25,000 in todays money. But no one cares for the same reason that they are not selling like hotcakes: it is a strange, unappealing little car that no one has any interest in despite it being the answer to many peoples driving needs. 

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
5/31/22 5:26 p.m.
bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) said:

Four pages and no one mentioned the Solo?

https://www.electrameccanica.com/solo/

I think this is the model T you are looking for. $18000 and change. 

That looks like a Polaris Slingshot with a roof on it. Maybe they should have done a roadster version and gone after a different market.

bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter)
bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
5/31/22 5:42 p.m.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I think they know the market they are after. The trouble is that everyone likes to talk about how we should drive practical and inexpensive little cars but noone actually wants to do it.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
6/1/22 8:08 a.m.
93EXCivic said:
frenchyd said:

In reply to STM317 
Single family homes just aren't going Happen.  Maybe a few really tough fixer uppers in bad neighborhoods. But that's not really the elevator.  So the suburbs will be the answer. 

There is a big part of the problem. The zoning laws in this country force people into the suburbs because we can't build townhouses or smaller houses on smaller lots so housing in town is unaffordable. We can't build walkable neighborhoods because zoning doesn't allow for local shops/restaurants. This also makes mass transit much more difficult. 

So as a result basically we are forcing people to live a car dependent life even if they don't want to.

Pure economics tells you Urban land is too valuable for single family homes with yards. 
 Developers will knock down a few homes and build apartments. As soon as they can get zoning permission.  
  If the city denies multi family use the land becomes Uber valuable because city councils are constantly changing.  Sooner or later zoning will change.  
    Try to imagine a single family home in New York City.  
     

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
6/1/22 8:18 a.m.
ProDarwin said:

I see this isn't really about EVs any more.  I just stopped into to say that yes, Suburbs are the work of the devil.

Everybody imagines this nice little affordable priced private home in the urban center  where everything is in close walking distance. 
    It won't ever happen.  Small business need more than a few customers to survive.   Dense apartments provide that but fail to offer much privacy. Or a place for children to play. If yards are wanted the suburbs are the only affordable place. 
 One good thing is EV's  make private cars workable in both Suburbs and Urban centers.   No longer do you need to find a gas station to fill up in the Morning, you can plug in at the curb.  Or if the apartment offers off street parking, there.  

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
6/1/22 10:20 a.m.
bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I think they know the market they are after. The trouble is that everyone likes to talk about how we should drive practical and inexpensive little cars but noone actually wants to do it.

It true unfortunately, at least en-masse. I would grab a relatively cheap, stripper 4 seater runabout for hauling kids locally and running to school, store, etc. 50mi/day range is fine, more would just be insurance for a missed charge. Kicker is paying more insurance (even with no extra drivers) which over 10yr would be more than the car.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
6/2/22 11:50 a.m.
frenchyd said:
93EXCivic said:
frenchyd said:

In reply to STM317 
Single family homes just aren't going Happen.  Maybe a few really tough fixer uppers in bad neighborhoods. But that's not really the elevator.  So the suburbs will be the answer. 

There is a big part of the problem. The zoning laws in this country force people into the suburbs because we can't build townhouses or smaller houses on smaller lots so housing in town is unaffordable. We can't build walkable neighborhoods because zoning doesn't allow for local shops/restaurants. This also makes mass transit much more difficult. 

So as a result basically we are forcing people to live a car dependent life even if they don't want to.

Pure economics tells you Urban land is too valuable for single family homes with yards. 
 Developers will knock down a few homes and build apartments. As soon as they can get zoning permission.  
  If the city denies multi family use the land becomes Uber valuable because city councils are constantly changing.  Sooner or later zoning will change.  
    Try to imagine a single family home in New York City.  
     

Urban planners, the elite, and investors want to cram poor people into tiny apartments. For the most part, poor people don't want to be crammed into apartments. You do have some people who want to live the "urban lifestyle", but for the most part, the single family home is the American Dream. Lots of poor people would rather live in a shack or a mobile home than in a new planned apartment complex. It's about freedom. It's about being the master of your own castle instead of being a tenant of a big corporation. Its about having space. Not having people living on top of you. It's not that people are being forced to have cars. Having cars is a result of the choice of having more space, not the choice itself. Most people are leaving more expensive cities for cheaper cities or more expensive states for cheaper states in order to find a single family home. You aren't going to sell these people on an expensive apartment complex.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/america-needs-to-end-its-love-affair-with-single-family-homes-one-town-is-discovering-it-s-a-tough-sell/ar-AAY0oNo?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=4142e76634b347abc6511b8ae8748159

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
6/2/22 12:07 p.m.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

Chevy. Dropped price on the Bolt by $6000. Now cheapest EV @ $25,XXX

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