https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-aCL9iUmVE&ab_channel=TheHistoryGuy%3AHistoryDeservestoBeRemembered
In reply to alfadriver :
Maybe it's my age. But isn't a Station wagon the same thing as a SUV without 4x4 ability?
Or Just a Mini wagon with a hood?
They are all Mom mobles designed to stuff more people and stuff together to go someplace?
In reply to frenchyd :
Yeah, I think so. In Michigan all of my jeeps, from wranglers to grand cherokees were titled as station wagons. Or maybe it was just "wagon"?
frenchyd said:In reply to alfadriver :
Maybe it's my age. But isn't a Station wagon the same thing as a SUV without 4x4 ability?
Or Just a Mini wagon with a hood?
They are all Mom mobles designed to stuff more people and stuff together to go someplace?
Isn't an SUV just a station wagon with worse handling or a minivan with less space inside?
I'm not here to interpret what a current station wagon is, and how it's evolved. Just thought the video would be of interest here given how popular older station wagons are.
For sure, some of the features of the old ones don't exist anymore. And on a federal basis, he is correct that a station wagon is a car whereas a mini-van and SUV are light trucks. That used to matter, but with the updated rules from almost a decade ago, it doesn't. Now it's about wheelbase and overhang to bracket fuel economy targets.
93EXCivic said:Isn't an SUV just a station wagon with worse handling or a minivan with less space inside?
I would happily wager that stock for stock, our Escape would handle better than our Alfa. Remember that article 20 years ago when GRM put a vintage Jag and Porsche up against a minivan. Modern SUV's handle better than older minivans.
alfadriver said:93EXCivic said:Isn't an SUV just a station wagon with worse handling or a minivan with less space inside?
I would happily wager that stock for stock, our Escape would handle better than our Alfa. Remember that article 20 years ago when GRM put a vintage Jag and Porsche up against a minivan. Modern SUV's handle better than older minivans.
Sure but that isn't apples to oranges is it? I am talking current (admittedly limited selection) of wagons. I bet a current wagon out handles most SUVs.
In reply to 93EXCivic :
Seems like a blanket statement that doesn't acknowledge that SUV's actually handle and drive quite well. Better that most cars not long ago. Better than most sports cars a little longer ago.
So, no, given the generalization, it's not an apples to oranges comparison. It's a relative comparison just like yours. Especially when the opening statement didn't include or imply modern station wagons- that correction came later.
alfadriver said:I'm not here to interpret what a current station wagon is, and how it's evolved. Just thought the video would be of interest here given how popular older station wagons are.
For sure, some of the features of the old ones don't exist anymore. And on a federal basis, he is correct that a station wagon is a car whereas a mini-van and SUV are light trucks. That used to matter, but with the updated rules from almost a decade ago, it doesn't. Now it's about wheelbase and overhang to bracket fuel economy targets.
I certainly agree that older station wagons have features no longer allowed for safety reasons. Some of those features are really cool.
When I win the lottery, I'm going looking for a 46-47 Buick woody wagon. For those no longer safe features.
Until I bought my Outback 8 years ago I'd forgotten how damn convenient station wagons are. It being an AWD wagon makes it damn near nirvana.
I need to cart around stuff on a regular basis but I don't want to drive a truck because they drive like trucks.
Yes modern SUVs pretty well, especially for how tall they are, but I need the lower load bay of a wagon (I'm only 5' 7").
A small to mid-size wagon can still be fun on a curvy road. I've actually had the Outback on track in the rain and it was fun...........not Miata fun but still fun. Granted my Outback is a manual so that helps.
Cressida wagons are one of my favorites. A friend had a 5 speed Cressida wagon with some suspension upgrades.
I also want a Mazda 1200 wagon (Familia) as we had one in Hawaii when I was a kid.
End of the day I like wagons because they make sense on so many levels...............perhaps I need a Miata wagon.
In reply to Tom1200 :
You make a really valid point about height, sorta!
First my F150 pickup is stupid high. Why Ford Jacks them up so darn high?
But not all SUV's are built on truck chassis. Look at Chevy and Fords smaller ones. They are more like a minivan with a longer engine compartment.
alfadriver said:In reply to 93EXCivic :
Seems like a blanket statement that doesn't acknowledge that SUV's actually handle and drive quite well. Better that most cars not long ago. Better than most sports cars a little longer ago.
I mean I have a CX50 and it handles damn well for SUV (better then any SUV I have driven) but doesn't handle as my 3 or a 6.
93EXCivic said:frenchyd said:In reply to alfadriver :
Maybe it's my age. But isn't a Station wagon the same thing as a SUV without 4x4 ability?
Or Just a Mini wagon with a hood?
They are all Mom mobles designed to stuff more people and stuff together to go someplace?Isn't an SUV just a station wagon with worse handling or a minivan with less space inside?
My current SUV outhandles every station wagon (4) and minivan (2) I've ever owned. It also outruns them and outtows them, out off roads them, and is pretty much a better vehicle in every way. And since I don't have 4 kids at home anymore, I don't need the space of a wagon or minivan. I have a utility trailer for the 2-3 times a year I need to haul something.
I do love me some station wagon though. I wish I still had every one of them.
In reply to Toyman! :
I feel the same way. I want a 46-47 Buick Roadmaster woodie wagon.
But newer does tend to be a better handling, more practical vehicle.
Back in 1969 when I was 13 years old, my parents where in the market for a new family hauler for their 7 kids. It was back when you could custom order a car to your exact needs. We settled on a 69 Pontiac Executive Safari wagon complete with simulated wood grain and with a 428 engine. We where looking at the paint chip brochure to pick out a color and my choice of Hugger Orange won.
We also had the children's car, a 68 Firebird Sprint with a 350ci two barrel engine and two speed Powerglide transmission and that big wagon would smoke the Firebird. I used to lift the hoods with both cars side by side wondering if I could swap the drive trains in enough time to finish before my dad got home the next time he was gone on a business trip. The Firebird got shortened a couple of feet after the drunk neighbor kid driving 40mph in a pickup rear ended my sister driving 25mph and punted her into another neighbor's parked 64 Mustang convertible on the other side of town. For the next round of cars, I talked my parents into buying a Volvo 73 1800ES wagon and a 74 164E Sedan, you know, for safety.
alfadriver said:93EXCivic said:Isn't an SUV just a station wagon with worse handling or a minivan with less space inside?
I would happily wager that stock for stock, our Escape would handle better than our Alfa. Remember that article 20 years ago when GRM put a vintage Jag and Porsche up against a minivan. Modern SUV's handle better than older minivans.
You bring your escape and I'll bring my wagon. We'll see who handles better.
Once upon a time, the difference between a station wagon and an SUV was the former was based on a sedan (usually the 4-door variant, but not always) and the latter was based on a truck. Today, the lines are blurred.
Granted, according to PennDOT, this gigantic, 6000 lb diesel powered beast is a station wagon:
...so who knows.
In reply to bobzilla :
Why?
My point is that SUV's handle a lot better than most cars of the past. So just binning them into some crappy driving generalization is incorrect. And who in the real world buys a station wagon because it handles so well? This group is not the general public- who think of RoadMasters as a station wagon, not an Audi A4.
Sure, there are pros and cons of everything, but I know we are happier with a small SUV than any small station wagon that would be it's equivallent.
I very much don't miss station wagons, but knowing that people here do, that's why I posted the video.
frenchyd said:In reply to alfadriver :
Maybe it's my age. But isn't a Station wagon the same thing as a SUV without 4x4 ability?
Or Just a Mini wagon with a hood?
They are all Mom mobles designed to stuff more people and stuff together to go someplace?
Station wagons are sedans with a taiilgate, possibly a third row of seats.
SUVs are inconvenient minivans.
VolvoHeretic said:Back in 1969 when I was 13 years old, my parents where in the market for a new family hauler for their 7 kids. It was back when you could custom order a car to your exact needs. We settled on a 69 Pontiac Executive Safari wagon complete with simulated wood grain and with a 428 engine.
My buddy's father had one just like that in blue, but with a 400 and a manual 3 on the tree. Also special ordered.
For that matter, my father had one just like that except a Bonneville. Vinyl top and roof rack but no woodgrain. 428 auto TH400 (?).
alfadriver said:
And who in the real world buys a station wagon because it handles so well?
*raises hand*
This group is not the general public.
*shakes head and puts hand back down*
I've had my MINI Cooper S Clubman since I ordered it new in 2009 - to my mind it's a small wagon and I use it as such, tho I don't haul a lot of people in the back seats, I have and it does....just fine.
Where it really shines is when I travel - I tow my classic Minis with it all over the country and it gets great fuel mileage and really eats the miles - or when I need to pick something up at Home Depot or load a classic Mini engine into it.
The rest of the times it's a great handling.......MINI!
My wife OTOH loves her Audi Allroad(s). We're on our second one - the first was an '04 that we traded in 2020 for the second, a 2014 A4 based "Smallroad" that's almost the same size as the A6 based 04 was, but gets about 34 mpg when we do a road trip and about 30 in town, where the 04 struggled to get 14 in town under my wife's lead foot.
Wagons are def our preference, SUV's and the huge modern pickups are just not for us. When we'd park the 04 A6 Allroad next to a new SUV, even the compact ones it looked tiny by comparison, yet to us it was a big car.
We replaced our Volvo 245 wagons for Ford Windstars because we needed more room and something newer. My perception about SUVs is that they just seem too darn narrow.
In reply to alfadriver :
First much thanks for a wagon thread
The height thing also matters for us because the Outback is perfect for my 87 year old mom to slide into. She struggles a bit with my wife's SUV.
alfadriver said:In reply to bobzilla :
Why?
My point is that SUV's handle a lot better than most cars of the past. So just binning them into some crappy driving generalization is incorrect. And who in the real world buys a station wagon because it handles so well? This group is not the general public- who think of RoadMasters as a station wagon, not an Audi A4.
Sure, there are pros and cons of everything, but I know we are happier with a small SUV than any small station wagon that would be it's equivallent.
I very much don't miss station wagons, but knowing that people here do, that's why I posted the video.
I like my wagon and I bought it because it handles so well.
I know... "thats not a wagon". I disagree. 2 box design with a hatch and larger cargo area.
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