Anyone have a Steel Building for Garage/Shop?

Now that my house build is at least at a state of stasis, I'm thinking about the shop build. Per the county I have about 1200sf to work with, and must be less tall than the house so about 20ft to peak. 

I have been getting quotes for 30x40 engineered steel buildings (red iron I-beam construction), and the pricing for the building itself seems favorable. Does anyone here have experience with building and/or working out of one of these buildings? Any tips or advise?

The pros that I can see include speed and efficiency. I got a ballpark of $6/sf for erection, and the nice part is once the erection is done, the roofing and siding are also already done. Also, this involves very little labor on my end. This sounds appealing after the last year of slogging on the house. Basically I would need to hire the excavator, a foundation crew, and the building erectors, and then I would have a dried-in building that I could start using while waiting for more funds to do interior finishes.

But, I keep coming back to traditional 2x6 stick framing, because that's what I'm used to. This would also look nicer, as I can get an 8/12 scissor truss that would get me a decent interior height on a 10ft wall, which would match my home better and look less like an industrial crackerbox. A 28x40 footprint would theoretically lose out on square footage, but the beam posts in the steel building take up a nonzero amount of floorspace.

Doing some maths based on what I paid for materials for my house, and estimating the current outrageous lumber prices, I think the materials to stick frame would be nearly the same as the material cost of the red iron building. But, this excludes siding and roofing, which would have to be done separately. In the end I think the only way this method would beat the price of the steel building is if I took on a lot of framing and siding labor. 

Stick framing does still appeal to me for a couple reasons - the interior will be easier to insulate and panel the walls/ceiling when I get to that stage. Also, the costs can be spread out over a bigger timeframe, and if something disastrous happens I can pause for an indefinite period. If I get the excavation and foundation down and spend more than I intended, I can pause and order the trusses and framing materials at a later date.

The costs for the steel building are basically backwards and all up front; you have to commit to the building before you can get the loads/reactions from the supplier to get the foundation engineered, and get real foundation quotes. So basically by the time you've chosen the steel building and put in a deposit, you're locked in and have 90 days to submit the order to fabrication, and 6-12 weeks to wait for fabrication; and all of the excavation and foundation work then has to be complete and paid for in that timeframe. It feels like little room for error and that makes me nervous to commit. 

Apologies for the wall of text, just trying to organize my mess of thoughts and see if anyone has any insight.

*I will add that VersaTube or other square tube carport-like structures are right out. I intend to occupy this space for 50+ years, and the wind gusts we get would send a tube shed tumbling down into the creek on the first weekend.

Considering where you are located,  I'd be more inclined to pursue the "red" iron structure due to winter weather patterns.....just sayin'  What would be the drive out price for this TTL?

759NRNG (Forum Partidario) said:

Considering where you are located,  I'd be more inclined to pursue the "red" iron structure due to winter weather patterns.....just sayin'  What would be the drive out price for this TTL?

Stick built would withstand the weather all the same, it has to meet the same snow load and wind gust load in the end. I agree, red iron "feels" like it should be better in the wind, but my house is 2x6 stick built with spray foam in the walls and it is solid.

I would like to come in under $50k, I thought a year or two ago that this would get me a finished structure with electrical and walls, but now I'm just aiming for dried in and closed up. Quotes for the steel building, averaged and rounded up, are about $17,000. This includes structure with wall and roof panels, framed openings, and delivery; but not the doors themselves, and no labor or erection costs. Pretty consistent pricing across three vendors.

Why are you limited to 1200sf by the county?

In reply to 759NRNG (Forum Partidario) :

They don't allow accessory structure square footage to exceed home square footage. Unfortunately they also count attached garage SF into accessory SF. So house living area + loft area + unfinished attic area - attached garage area leaves me with a hair over 1200sf. Which is perfect for what I need, 28x40 or 30x40 gives me three cars wide for parking and projects, with a generous area to the side for tools/machines/fabrication stuff, and deep enough for benches/toolboxes/shelves in front of the cars.

I make a lot of money going in after somebody builds a metal building and then wants it finished on the inside with insulation, wiring , walls, etc.  Just saying.  Amazing how much wood it takes to finish the inside of a metal building.

I live in a 135mph wind zone for building codes.  I stick built my 24 x 38 with high ceilings for lift, fully wired, foam insulated, and finished on inside two years ago for under $40K.   Built to match house with Hardie siding, and make HOA happy.

YMMV

The cost of versa tube frame and roof only before labor, is about the same as a carport style (more on the 3 styles in a moment) assembled and in the dry. 

You dismissed them automatically, but properly assembled and anchored to a well pored slab, they are as wind resistant, or more, then a stick built. There are plenty that have not been done right, to give them a bad rep, but done right, they are good to go. And can be customized to actually look good, for less. 

The “classic” style is not strong or good look... the roof is longitudinal panels over curved “rafters. “  the “boxed eve” is a bit better (true A frame rafters) but still has roof panels long way. The “vertical” is metal roof run the “correct” way.  I did a frame inside for insulting, and bead board (4x8) and feel this added some strength as well. I will not live another 50 years, but it will out last me! Unless one of our tornadoes takes it and the house down..,

Sorry, don’t have a better picture of mine, but this is the back wall. They had to bring a rear door they forgot, and the siding they brought with them was a slightly different color. We noticed after it was up, but I got to keep the correct panels for spare 

Mine was $7700 for 24 x 40 and a few thou. in material for inside (my own labor is cheap) once it was dry. 

Same back wall from the inside:

now I do still have to finish the back wall to 10’, but the sides are finished to 9’ (sidewall height)

i framed the pad, and just had pro’s pore and finish, the mex crew threw it up, and I finished the inside. ‘Bout $16K with me doing about a third of the labor 

03Panther said:

Same back wall from the inside:

now I do still have to finish the back wall to 10’, but the sides are finished to 9’ (sidewall height)

i framed the pad, and just had pro’s pore and finish, the mex crew threw it up, and I finished the inside. ‘Bout $16K with me doing about a third of the labor 

Is that a Bridgeport mill on the pallet?  Dude....

I just spec'd a 30x40x12 building on the VersaTube website for fun, and it came out to almost $20k. The design of the structures makes it expensive to put doors on the long side (not on a gable end). The space I have to work with, and the way I prefer to use the building, requires doors on the long side.
They want to spec a 3/12 roof pitch also which adds to the ugly. I can at least get a 5/12 with the I-beam steel building. Of course the stick built option will be most attractive since I can spec an 8/12 raised heel scissor truss.

I suppose I could assemble the VersaTube myself, though. It's really too bad they aren't cheaper.

My combination of wind and snow load are driving prices up. One building supplier copied from my house building permit at 45psf/115mph, while another said they've dealt with my county pushing up the requirement in the past and they quoted it at 65psf/155mph.

I tried hard to want the versa tube, and assemble myself, but couuld buy red iron for that. 

As I was typing my info I realized you wanted doors in the side... can be done in the vertical carport style, but, just like versa tube, gets expensive. Same with more attractive pitch. 

A friend has built his house out of ICF block, and 1st shop in red iron. Last two business shop add ins were red iron uprights/roof, and ICF walls between/around the beams. Looks fantastic, and indestructible!!! A bit pricy, but he does his on labor for 3/4 s of it.   When he built he’s house he went from 900 ft2, to 4000 ft2, and his utilities went to half of what he was paying for air/heat!!!

In reply to 11GTCS :

Yep. 54 model, 9x42. No power feeds. Now if I can remember how to put it back together....

My shop is a 30x40 steel building that was put up 25 years ago. It's showing no signs of wear and doesn't leak a bit. It's insulated with batting and it does get warm in the summer, but we have a strong sun here. 

Loads of vertical room which lets me run the Westfalia to the top of the lift and has room for a big ceiling fan. The interior walls are a bit of a pain with the structural members, but I've done some light framing for when I need it and also built shelves that fit amongst them. Also, I have at least one shelf that is welded to the wall :)

So living with one is certainly easy enough. The only odd thing is that the walls sweat when my gas heater is running as it dumps moisture into the air. I run a humidity activated exhaust fan to deal with that. Also, I need a little more AC power than you might otherwise need to stay on top of the solar gain based on calculations, but I suspect that might be a function of the calculations not taking our high altitude sun into consideration. 

The only weird thing is the difficulty of attaching stuff to the interior walls, but this is tempered by the fact that when I'm poking holes for AC units or extraction fans I know exactly where all structure and electrical is. It was also super-easy to run a bunch of extra power circuits when I moved in.  My previous  shops were wood. 

Make sure the estimate for erecting a steel building actually includes roof and wall cladding. When I think steel erection I think anchor bolts up- and just the hot rolled steel frame.. not the tin. YMMV. 

In reply to OHSCrifle :

Good call. I didn't specifically clarify, but they asked if I wanted insulation installed as well, and this traditionally gets sandwiched between the framing and the wall cladding so I extrapolated that to mean complete assembly of the building shell. I'm fairly sure that is what they meant but I will be sure to ask more directly.

If you like the idea of metal but want insulated etc. check out this place.  Their panels are actually structural and may be just the answer to save you labor costs.  I first saw them used on a house in Treasure Island,Fl.  2000sqft or so and only needed a 2 ton AC. Builder told me the entire envelope had an R value of 52.  They used the 6" thick panels.  It was basically a huge walk in cooler.  I asked about wind and they are good for 150mph and can be built to handle 180.  I'm pretty sure my next house will be built out of this. 

IIRC the cost is about 65-70% of list price in the catalog.

https://structall.com/

My dad's building is 50×50 steel that I think is the same as you describe and is roughly 40 years old. The foil backed insulation is looking a little shabby and torn. The paint is fading, especially on the west side that takes the most punishment from the wind and rain. Other than that it has held up brilliantly. I dont think he has ever had a roof leak, which is impressive considering it has very little slope and we get a decent amount of snow. At 40 yrs old it seems to have at least another 80 yrs left. 

I think the biggest down side is it's not very appealing to look at. It's just a big white cube.

jgrewe said:

If you like the idea of metal but want insulated etc. check out this place.  Their panels are actually structural and may be just the answer to save you labor costs.  I first saw them used on a house in Treasure Island,Fl.  2000sqft or so and only needed a 2 ton AC. Builder told me the entire envelope had an R value of 52.  They used the 6" thick panels.  It was basically a huge walk in cooler.  I asked about wind and they are good for 150mph and can be built to handle 180.  I'm pretty sure my next house will be built out of this. 

IIRC the cost is about 65-70% of list price in the catalog.

https://structall.com/

A coworker built his shop out of SIPs. It's a very gratifying first day, it looks like you'll be done in a weekend. Feels like a Mennonite barn raising. And then it gets very slow. Wiring is a bit of a pain because it runs inside channels inside the panels, unlike a stick built where you build the frame, wire and then close the walls. Great insulation, though. I can't directly compare the AC requirements to my own because his has very little solar load and not much in the way of windows, but I figure it would have to be better.

My neighbor just put up one, doesn't look very appealing especially in a development with an HOA.  Apparently the covenants didn't distinctly say that an outbuilding had to be made of wood but just had to match the house.   On the meeting with the HOA board they mentioned that it would be a vinyl siding and shingled roof but it is not.  Now that it is up, the siding doesn't match and it has a maroon metal roof.  Needless to say the rest of the neighborhood isn't happy. 

I have a 24'x36' Pole building. Wood posts, wood trusses, steel outside. My guy put up the building. I had the floor done by another guy. I have done all the interior myself. The insulation is just sandwiched between the wood and siding. Its not a high R value but it is perfectly comfortable in the winter with just a small propane radiant heater. After wiring, I sheeted the bottom 4' of wall with white steel siding. Reflective and durable. The rest is sheet rock. 12' walls. Outside is white with a green roof. I think it looks nice, but I'm a country boy who has been around steel buildings my whole life.

Keith Tanner said:

jgrewe said:

If you like the idea of metal but want insulated etc. check out this place.  Their panels are actually structural and may be just the answer to save you labor costs.  I first saw them used on a house in Treasure Island,Fl.  2000sqft or so and only needed a 2 ton AC. Builder told me the entire envelope had an R value of 52.  They used the 6" thick panels.  It was basically a huge walk in cooler.  I asked about wind and they are good for 150mph and can be built to handle 180.  I'm pretty sure my next house will be built out of this. 

IIRC the cost is about 65-70% of list price in the catalog.

https://structall.com/

A coworker built his shop out of SIPs. It's a very gratifying first day, it looks like you'll be done in a weekend. Feels like a Mennonite barn raising. And then it gets very slow. Wiring is a bit of a pain because it runs inside channels inside the panels, unlike a stick built where you build the frame, wire and then close the walls. Great insulation, though. I can't directly compare the AC requirements to my own because his has very little solar load and not much in the way of windows, but I figure it would have to be better.

For a shop I would just surface mount all that stuff in conduit. The house I watched be built used all metal studs inside and furred out the perimeter walls. The coolest thing was you can put a window just about anywhere at any time.  The factory can cut out holes by CNC in the panels as they are made or you can do it after the wall is built. You cut the shape out of each skin, hot knife the foam, and push out the plug.

I don't know how covid has affected the price of these but I just paid $6.25 for a 2x4. At those prices the normal premium paid for SIP's is more than gone.

In my coworker's case, all the windows had a boxed in frame. I don't recall all the details exactly, but it wasn't just pushing out a plug. You also have to be careful not to make a horizontal cut across an entire panel because then nothing is holding up the roof :)  Surface mounted wiring would definitely have been the way to go for future maintenance although that's more work than running Romex along studs. His vertical studs between the panels were 2x6. There was some screwing around that involved the difference between dimensional and rough cut lumber that caused a bunch of extra work, but he's the sort of guy who would get that wrong every time. Overall, it's a pretty cool concept but it does have a couple of gotchas. I have to say I'd seriously consider it for a house.

I expect they've been subject to the same price increases as all building materials. They're just made out of foam and plywood, really, so they'll have similar price pressure.

I should mention that the 25,000 sq foot building Flyin' Miata works out of is steel. A little larger than most home shops are, but about the size we want them all to be :) I think it's been around since 1976 or so if memory serves. Pretty good shape overall. Loud as hell when it's raining.

The Structal ones are either steel or aluminum.  They snap together and then you add screws to the seams so you can run a window across the full width of a panel.  The trick to get them from 150mph to 180mph? More screws!

How can you get anything done with only 25K sqft??? lol.  I share 5K with a friend for my "game room" and I have to rent space for finished cars to keep them out of harms way.  The next place will be bigger...

So, I have made zero useful progress, except to hear back from the county that I need engineered framing and foundation plans for a stick-built 28x40. I had submitted a permit application just to see if it would go through using the Detached Garage Building Guide that my county copy-and-pasted from the ICC book, which is supposed to be used in lieu of engineered plans for a simple structure like this, but they won't let it fly with a building this size.

I had nearly fully convinced myself that I was going to pour a traditional 36" frost depth footing-and-wall foundation, get a regular slab poured inside, and then stick build doing pretty much all of the framing, siding, and finish work myself to pull it off within budget. But now that I would have to get the engineer involved anyway I'm considering more options. 

If I'm going to pay for engineered foundation plans anyway, I'm considering asking them to design a monolithic slab foundation for a stick-built garage - which will probably have to be a Frost Protected Shallow Foundation to be acceptable here. This would save me both on excavation (I'm sitting directly on bedrock under what little topsoil we have, which is great for foundation stability but sucks for digging) since the footing depth would be less; and on concrete (got a $11,000 quote for the foundation footings and walls, and flatwork was between $6 and $7/sf for 4 inches with wire mesh last Spring) since there would be less cubic yards required and only one pour/one crew. 

Also, after immediately dismissing Versatube, I've gone back and played with their configurator some more. It looks like I can get a 28x40 that is laid out probably 80% the way I initially hoped, for nearly exactly the same materials price as the I-beam steel or stick-built. This price also includes delivery with unloading, and engineer stamped plans (but I don't know how complete these plans really are). I'm still not a huge fan of the boxy looks, but I've been watching youtube videos of Versatube garage assembly and it looks like totally something I could do completely DIY with occasional help from a friend or two. 
Anyone with a square-tube framed garage or building have insight about insulation and interior wall finishing?