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slefain
slefain Dork
11/16/09 11:03 a.m.

I may have had a break in reality. As my wife's VW sits at the dealer again I realized that our car shopping may have to take a new direction. As in a new car. Not used. I know, I must be delusional.

My reasoning is I want to buy the "drive it until it dies" wife mobile. High on my list is a warranty. The wife likes the Jetta TDI sport wagon, but VW has crippled their warranty down to 3/36,000. No go. In fact, no way in hell.

I've narrowed it down to either a CR-V or a Santa Fe. The Hyundai warranty is a big plus, as is the impressive list of base model features. The CR-V will have better value retention, but if I am going to be driving it into the ground will that even matter?

Honda warranty: * Bumper-to-Bumper Limited Warranty (years/miles) = 3/36,000. * Powertrain Limited Warranty (years/miles) = 5/60,000. * Corrosion Limited Warranty (years/miles) = 5/unlimited. * Accessory Limited Warranty - All Honda accessories are covered up to 3 years or 36,000 miles, depending on time of installation.

Hyundai warranty: 10 YEAR / 100,000 MILES POWERTRAIN PROTECTION Covers most engine & transaxle components.
Covers repair or replacement of powertrain components (i.e. selected Engine and Transmission/Transaxle components), originally manufactured or installed by Hyundai that are defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance.

5 YEAR / 60,000 MILES NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY Covers nearly every new vehicle component
Covers repair or replacement of any component manufactured or originally installed by Hyundai that is defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance.

Following components covered for time and mileage limits indicated: - Radio And Sound Systems (i.e. radio, cassette tape drive mechanism, and compact disc player): 3 years / 36,000 miles - Paint: 3 years/ 36,000 miles - Battery: 3 years / unlimited miles (100% covered 2 years / unlimited miles; after 2 years and within 3 years, 25% cost of battery and 100% labor cost covered) - Air Conditioner Refrigerant Charge: 1 year / unlimited miles - Adjustments: 1 year / 12,000 miles - Wear Items: 1 year / 12,000 miles (e.g. belts, brake pads & linings, clutch linings, filters, wiper blades, bulbs, fuses) space image

7 YEAR / UNLIMITED MILES ANTI-PERFORATION WARRANTY Covers rust-related corrosion of body sheet metal.
Covers 7 years unlimited miles starting with 2005 Model Year

Covers perforation (rust hole through the body panel from inside to outside) corrosion of original Hyundai body sheet metal due to defects in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance.

Excludes surface corrosion space image

5 YEAR / UNLIMITED MILES 24-HOUR ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE Covers towing (including accident-related), lock-out, flat tire, and battery failure.
Covers vehicle, regardless if current owner is original or subsequent owner.

Includes the following full roadside amenities: - Towing for inoperable disablements, including accidents - Battery jump starts - Change flat tire - Lock-out - Out of gas - Trip interruption

12 MONTH / 12,000 MILES REPLACEMENT PARTS AND ACCESSORY LIMITED WARRANTY
Covers repair or replacement of any Hyundai Genuine Replacement Parts or Accessory supplied by Hyundai that is defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance.

8 YEAR / 80,000 MILES FEDERAL EMISSION AND PERFORMANCE WARRANTY
Covers repair or replacement of the following original Hyundai major emissions control components that cause the vehicle to fail to conform to an applicable EPA approved Inspection/Maintenance Program:

1) Catalytic Converter 2) Engine Control Module 3) Onboard Emissions Diagnostic Device (OBDII)

Other EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) emissions warranty parts are covered under the 5 years / 60,000 mile New Vehicle Limited Warranty. space image 7 YEAR / 70,000 MILES CALIFORNIA EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM WARRANTY

That Hyundai warranty has a lot of "buts" in it. I accept that either way I will be chained to having all maintenance done at the dealership, but that is what it takes to stay under a warranty. I'm researching like mad to figure out if Honda's quality has slipped in the last few years. I hear lots of hushed talking about Honda slipping. I also hear lots of talking (and awards) about Hyundai's quality.

I know this is about the most anti-grassroots thing I can do, and please know that I have mulled over the "don't buy new" argument, so that isn't what I am looking for. I have money from a long ago car crash and can buy either model outright, so I'm in a fine position to do so. I'm just torn as to which one will be the long term champ. I don't want to have to make this decision again for a long time.

awebb
awebb New Reader
11/16/09 11:16 a.m.

Honda>Hyunda IMO

tuna55
tuna55 Reader
11/16/09 11:28 a.m.

Wow man, on the GRM board, you want us to compare a Japanese SUV vs a Korean SUV? Holy cow.

The only thing I can add is that I remember some generation of the CRV had a pretty bad rollover tenancy. If your wife has any of the typical "cover your eyes and scream" issues when in a tough situation or accident, you may want to consider that. Fatality risk increases go up like crazy once you do the whole 'shiny side down' thing, which is why I have a wagon (that and the turbo).

mtn
mtn SuperDork
11/16/09 11:29 a.m.

I'd say go with the Hyundai.

slefain
slefain Dork
11/16/09 11:33 a.m.
tuna55 wrote: Wow man, on the GRM board, you want us to compare a Japanese SUV vs a Korean SUV? Holy cow.

I know right, asking you guys this question only seems to solidify my possible need for professional counseling. I think maybe I'm just having a severe reaction to the extremely bad luck I am having with my wife's VW. But I can't put her and the kids into something I have to make time to fix. Surely I'm not the only one here who has thought about buying their wife a new car just to have peace of mind that you won't have to fix it any time soon.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/16/09 11:40 a.m.
slefain wrote: My reasoning is I want to buy the "drive it until it dies" wife mobile.

That would be a used Corolla. Just sayin'...

slefain
slefain Dork
11/16/09 11:54 a.m.
GameboyRMH wrote:
slefain wrote: My reasoning is I want to buy the "drive it until it dies" wife mobile.
That would be a used Corolla. Just sayin'...

Normally you would be correct, but when looking at have a rear-facing car seat for 2 more years (planning on having another baby) and needing room for stroller and baby stuff. My wife likes the baby SUVs due to how easy it is to move baby/baby stuff in and out. Honestly she is staying home to take care of the kids so I want to make things as easy on her as possible. She doesn't need for me to tell her "maybe I can fix your car this weekend" any more than I'm doing now. We're down to one car right now and it is a pain. Although the Sunfire is doing its best to its credit.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
11/16/09 12:02 p.m.

Those RAV 4's are pretty neat too. I would say RAV 4 > Honduh CRV > Hundai thing. Also consider the Matrix, and I bet that Pontiac labeled version is practically free these days.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand Reader
11/16/09 12:11 p.m.

yeah the RAV 4 has a much bigger back seat. I cannot stand to ride in the back seat of my Mother-ln-laws CR-V it's just uncomfortable however my Moms Rav-4 is great. I think though if you are buying for a long time and planing on having more kids I'd look at a Mini-van or a Mazda 5. Baby SUV's just don't make sense. They are large fuel guzzling hatchbacks that really don't have any more interior room than a hatchback. If your wife is to "into" looking cool that she want's a baby SUV rather than a more logical solution (Mini-van, Hatchback, Station Wagon) you will probably be replacing the SUV when it goes out of style anyway. So I'd just buy a used car that you could get a reliable 3-5 years out of.

jrw1621
jrw1621 Dork
11/16/09 12:25 p.m.

We can debate the merits of the Hyundai but at the end of the day I think you will still be comparing it to the CRV. You can not go wrong with the CRV, especially if it is for the long run. I have yet to meet a female who did not like a CRV. It is a car that I often recommend to the "no-knowing" car buying public.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla HalfDork
11/16/09 12:42 p.m.

Being the current owner of 2 hyundai's, maintainer of 3 and friends with a couple more owners, you own't be sad if you bought the sante fe. resale is creeping up, no, jumping up. But if you buy it to run it into the ground (the only smart way to buy a car) it will last you a long time. Bought our 02 eLANTRA, beat it every day for the last 7+ years and have had no failures not caused by the owner's own stupidity!

Anyone thinking that Honda>Hyundai hasn't been around a Hyundai in a while. Go with the Sante Fe. You will enjoy it.

pigeon
pigeon HalfDork
11/16/09 1:03 p.m.

I know you already said new, but a low-mileage CPO BMW 5-series wagon is only a little more money (low 30s), gets you a 100k miles warranty and the build quality is light years ahead of either SUV, and it's a BMW sport wagon which means it won't suck to drive!

OK, back to reality - get whichever car is cheaper to insure. Auto insurance companies know what cars are expensive to fix in a wreck and what cars people get hurt in. Lower risk = lower rates. That and it's going to be a long-term recurring cost, you may save $500 or more per year depending on which car you buy, which buys a lot of dealer maintenance.

davidjs
davidjs New Reader
11/16/09 1:04 p.m.

My only comment will be look at the 'baby-SUV', then imagine it with two car seats in the back and a stroller in the trunk... they run out of room quickly.

My wife regrets getting hers now that we have 2 little ones (I regretted it from the beginning ), and she finds herself lacking space all the time...

I would kill for sliding doors for parking lots too, as when you're parked close it's tough to maneuver to get kids out of both sides...

Josh
Josh HalfDork
11/16/09 1:17 p.m.
Dr. Hess wrote: Those RAV 4's are pretty neat too. I would say RAV 4 > Honduh CRV > Hundai thing. Also consider the Matrix, and I bet that Pontiac labeled version is practically free these days.

The Rav is great, too, but the engine options doom it IMO. It's just too big for the base 4cyl., and the V6 is too pricey and inefficient. If you're looking to compare it against a 4cyl CR-V on price or performance, the Rav4 loses on at least one count no matter which engine you pick.

I hate to keep hopping on the Mazda5 bandwagon, but I really like it, and to be honest I want them to sell better so eventually we'll get more cars from that segment sold in the US. The biggest strike against it is probably resale, but that's irrelevant if you are planning to drive it all the way to the junkyard. You can't really go wrong with the CR-V either, but I think you get a lot more for your dollar at the Mazda dealer these days.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla HalfDork
11/16/09 1:22 p.m.

The funny thing, the CR-V is the small Cute-ute while the Sante Fe is a "normal" SUV that gets the same mileage but has more room.

Here's what I want to know what the problem is: Longer warranty. Same mileage, more room, sams or less money. Why would you spend more to get less again? Honda has plain priced themselves out of contention these days. With their waning quality control (still better than Toyota), dedclining fuel efficiency and higher prices..... they are doing the same thing the Big 3 did in the 80's. We see where they are now.....

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand Reader
11/16/09 1:28 p.m.
Josh wrote: The Rav is great, too, but the engine options doom it IMO. It's just too big for the base 4cyl.

CR-V 4-cly 4wd curb weight 3554 O/A length 179.3 Height 66.1 HP 180 TQ 161

RAV4 4-cyl 4wd Curb weight 3576 O/A length 181.9 Height 66.3 HP 179 TQ 172

Per Honda and Toyota Websites.

The RAV is just TOO BIG!!!

My mom's V-6 rav4 2wd is averaging 26mpg, when she does all highway she gets 28-29.

JFX001
JFX001 Dork
11/16/09 1:29 p.m.

1) Take your Wife to both Dealerships in question.

2) Let her choose.

3) Bask in the short lived happiness that follows.

Josh
Josh HalfDork
11/16/09 1:30 p.m.
slefain wrote: That Hyundai warranty has a lot of "buts" in it. I accept that either way I will be chained to having all maintenance done at the dealership, but that is what it takes to stay under a warranty.

This is a very common, yet absolutely false assumption. Unfortunately for honest independent shops, dealers seem to have built the bulk of their business model around it. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act specifcally prohibits "tie-in" sales requirements in product warranties, IE requiring that their parts or their labor be used to maintain warranty coverage. The only requirement to keep your warranty is that the work is done correctly and that the non-factory parts did not cause the failure claimed.

Josh
Josh HalfDork
11/16/09 1:36 p.m.
nocones wrote:
Josh wrote: The Rav is great, too, but the engine options doom it IMO. It's just too big for the base 4cyl.
CR-V 4-cly 4wd curb weight 3554 O/A length 179.3 Height 66.1 HP 180 TQ 161 RAV4 4-cyl 4wd Curb weight 3576 O/A length 181.9 Height 66.3 HP 179 TQ 172 Per Honda and Toyota Websites. The RAV is just TOO BIG!!! My mom's V-6 rav4 2wd is averaging 26mpg, when she does all highway she gets 28-29.

Maybe it was the torque curve, gearing, or sound of the engine, but I have driven both of them and did not come away with the impression that they were both similarly powered in 4-cyl form.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla HalfDork
11/16/09 1:40 p.m.
Josh wrote:
slefain wrote: That Hyundai warranty has a lot of "buts" in it. I accept that either way I will be chained to having all maintenance done at the dealership, but that is what it takes to stay under a warranty.
This is a very common, yet absolutely false assumption. Unfortunately for honest independent shops, dealers seem to have built the bulk of their business model around it. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act specifcally prohibits "tie-in" sales requirements in product warranties, IE requiring that their parts or their labor be used to maintain warranty coverage. The only requirement to keep your warranty is that the work is done correctly and that the non-factory parts did not *cause* the failure claimed.

Keerect. The only "buts" in the warranty are "Did you run over something or crash the car?" and "Did you change the fluids at the appropriate times?" If you can't handle those, you shouldn't be driving a car to start with.

Josh
Josh HalfDork
11/16/09 1:41 p.m.
JFX001 wrote: 1) Take your Wife to both Dealerships in question. 2) Let her choose. 3) Bask in the short lived happiness that follows.

Better than that, send her in alone. Then go back yourself the next day, don't let on that your wife's already been in, and see if anything changes. That will tell you a lot more about the way they operate and whether or not you are both likely to be happy with their service.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand Reader
11/16/09 1:49 p.m.
Josh wrote: Maybe it was the torque curve, gearing, or sound of the engine, but I have driven both of them and did not come away with the impression that they were both similarly powered in 4-cyl form.

I'm not trying to harp on you or anything but from C&D: http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/eb52dae092e42a37d28e1df6fb3f61e1.pdf

Rav-4 0-60 4-cyl 4wd 8.8 sec 1/4 mile 16.9@82 rolling 5-60 9.1 top gear 50-70 5.8

CR-v 0-60 4-cyl 4wd 9.1 sec 1/4 mile 17.1@81 rolling 5-60 9.8 top gear 50-70 6.3

It probably does sound a bit buzzier and harsher at full throttle the Rav is 76db, the CR-v is 74db.

Statistically the Rav and CRV are Identical. Price wise I think they are comparable also, you can't compare the V6 RAV to the CRV as dynamically it's so much better. The hyundai is a bit cheaper. And it feels that way. I shopped small SUV's with my mom when she bought her RAV so I drove/sat in/tried out most of them. I like the RAV. If I were going to buy a small SUV.. Well I wouldn't, but the RAV is the best of the bunch. 4cyl to 4cyl it's better than the CRV, and with the V-6 you don't get much worse MPG (my MIL gets ~29-30 highway 24 city in her CRV, my mom gets 28-29 highway 23 city in her RAV v-6) but you get a 3500lb towing capacity.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla HalfDork
11/16/09 2:01 p.m.

Last Rav I had caught on fire, ate 4 main cats and needed several thousand in repairs to keep on the road at 90k miles on the odo. I have 115k ON A HYUNDAI that has required tires, oil changes and a belt change.

I think I learned my lesson.

slefain
slefain Dork
11/16/09 2:10 p.m.
Bobzilla wrote: Last Rav I had caught on fire, ate 4 main cats and needed several thousand in repairs to keep on the road at 90k miles on the odo. I have 115k ON A HYUNDAI that has required tires, oil changes and a belt change. I think I learned my lesson.

And that's pretty much where I am right now. What happened to the car warranties? Not long ago 5 year/60k was pretty standard. It looks like most manufacturers have pulled back to only a 3/36 warranty. That's not good enough folks. If I buy a new car I expect it to start falling apart somewhere around 100k. By selling such short warranties I'm concerned about the true longevity of a vehicle.

The Mazda5 had my attention for a moment, but the same lousy 3/36 warranty canned that.

Wow, Mitsu now has a warranty to rival Hyundia and Kia. Very interesting.

http://www.carsmart.com/content/research/warranty/index.cfm?id=13185;CRSM&sort=Basic_Years

Bobzilla
Bobzilla HalfDork
11/16/09 2:21 p.m.

I have 114k on my 02, the wife's 00 Accent (cheapest car made) is at 170k. The "other wife's" 01 is at 102k. With the exception of the diff pin coming loose at 120k on the accent, none have required anything but normal maintenance of oil, filters, tires and belts.

Have you checked out the 2010 Tucson yet? It's another new release from Hyundai that is a big step up from the previous Tucson. The old one wasn't bad, just not as polished as the new crop of Cute-utes.

If I was in the market for a Cute-ute, I would look at the Suzuki Grand Vitara as well. WE put over 90K on our 01 GV and my wife wishes she had it back every day.... except the gas mileage part. 38-40 in the accent trumps the 20-23 in the GV.

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