He can't read yet, but he can build a campfire

The link between time spent outdoors and mental health may be stronger than we think- and it may start very early on in life:

https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/parenting/viking-parenting-childhood-risk-fresh-air-mental-health/

hear hear, hence Trail Life for our boys.

Yes, outside is so important. Hiking, fishing, swimming, exploring... Lisa (my wife) was appalled when we found out the local elementary school - in a good school system - has 1/2 hour of outside play per day. 8am-3pm, only 1/2 hour of recess. Not enough.

I knew a guy that was an absolute expert in concrete. Total illiterate.

In reply to Appleseed :

I've met people like that, other folks would assume they're stupid, at their peril.

This makes me feel like I've got things I need to do better. Gonna plan a camping trip soon. Kids are 3/5. Never slept outdoors. Never roasted marshmallows. Living in the area we live in, I have zero excuse. 

I do have to make a confession here.  I'm not always 100% supportive of this.  When the kids are out running wild and getting into all sorts of stuff in the yard, or I can't see them, or when they come in the house and leave their muddy clothes strewn across the kitchen floor...sometimes, I lose it.  Sometimes I just want them to sit still and learn their reading and math. 

They're headed out this morning for nature co-op with Mrs. VCH.  She's pretty good about making sure they get in their outdoor time, and this will include socialization with other homeschool kids, so a double bonus. 

barefootskater5000 said:

This makes me feel like I've got things I need to do better. Gonna plan a camping trip soon. Kids are 3/5. Never slept outdoors. Never roasted marshmallows. Living in the area we live in, I have zero excuse. 

Ours are 4/7.  We did a family camping trip last year, first one we'd taken in a couple of years.  It was definitely easier this time than last.  3/5 is still tough- you end up doing 99% of the work and getting 1% enjoyment out of it.  This past trip it was more like 70/30. 

Definitely need to get my kid more outside time. It's hard as parents 'cause we dislike some weather conditions (we're in Canada), but my soon to be 4 year old doesn't care about that. He's also very high energy, and needs the free play time and fresh air more than he needs TV.

volvoclearinghouse said:

I do have to make a confession here.  I'm not always 100% supportive of this.  When the kids are out running wild and getting into all sorts of stuff in the yard, or I can't see them, or when they come in the house and leave their muddy clothes strewn across the kitchen floor...sometimes, I lose it.  Sometimes I just want them to sit still and learn their reading and math. 

They're headed out this morning for nature co-op with Mrs. VCH.  She's pretty good about making sure they get in their outdoor time, and this will include socialization with other homeschool kids, so a double bonus. 

Reading that article, neither am I. I don't want my toddler whittling a stick. That isn't really the spirit of the article though, which is "get kids out in nature". That I agree with.

volvoclearinghouse said:

barefootskater5000 said:

This makes me feel like I've got things I need to do better. Gonna plan a camping trip soon. Kids are 3/5. Never slept outdoors. Never roasted marshmallows. Living in the area we live in, I have zero excuse. 

Ours are 4/7.  We did a family camping trip last year, first one we'd taken in a couple of years.  It was definitely easier this time than last.  3/5 is still tough- you end up doing 99% of the work and getting 1% enjoyment out of it.  This past trip it was more like 70/30. 

Honestly I've been pretty averse to taking them camping because of the difficulties presented. And I'm more protective than I'd really like to admit. But a simple overnight trip with a good morning hike/explore... this summer I've been planning to take the 5yo out, just me and him, for some activities I wouldn't really want the 3yo doing yet. 

The wife and I went camping this past weekend with my parents, my eldest son and his wife, and the grandkids. 4 generations of campers. Whittling of sticks, walking through the woods, burning of meat and marshmallows did happen. We try to aim for one trip every month or so, sometimes in tents, sometimes in the RV. This past weekend being wet and cool, we took the RVs. 

mtn said:

volvoclearinghouse said:

I do have to make a confession here.  I'm not always 100% supportive of this.  When the kids are out running wild and getting into all sorts of stuff in the yard, or I can't see them, or when they come in the house and leave their muddy clothes strewn across the kitchen floor...sometimes, I lose it.  Sometimes I just want them to sit still and learn their reading and math. 

They're headed out this morning for nature co-op with Mrs. VCH.  She's pretty good about making sure they get in their outdoor time, and this will include socialization with other homeschool kids, so a double bonus. 

Reading that article, neither am I. I don't want my toddler whittling a stick. That isn't really the spirit of the article though, which is "get kids out in nature". That I agree with.

I was more referring to my own sometimes OCD tendencies towards control.  I have no issue with them learning how to do stuff.  My youngest (4) can cut fruit with a real knife, and last weekend while in the garage he picked up a flip-blade knife, opened it, and began to whittle on a couple of old paint sticks I had laying around.  After working at this for some non-trivial amount of time, he decided they were ready, picked up a nail and a hammer, attached the sticks to each other, and proclaimed he had built an airplane.  

This sort of stuff builds confidence. If someone doesn't tell you "you can't", you won't know.

I live way out in the woods and I recommend it, although some are really not suited for it.

I think it's less that they are outdoors and more..... unstructured adversity? Pretty much everything does better with a bit of adversity, the Universe 25 experiment proves that I think

volvoclearinghouse said:  This sort of stuff builds confidence. If someone doesn't tell you "you can't", you won't know.

This is gold. 
A bit like what I tell people when they say they've never been good at math: You only believe that because on your first day of school your teacher said "Math is hard, but..." If you go into something and your parents/teachers tell you how difficult it is right from the start, chances of you reaching full potential are pretty slim. 

We've followed the Scandinavian model as far as no stress about reading / etc at a young age. But it's amazing what they pick up on their own without that pressure. My 4 year old is reading simple things on her own and working ok more complex things with a bit of input. We didn't teach it to her at all but suddenly she's able to read. We do read to her a lot and I'm sure that's where it comes from but it's still really surprising. Where there's will, it'll happen. 
 

Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:

I think it's less that they are outdoors and more..... unstructured adversity? Pretty much everything does better with a bit of adversity, the Universe 25 experiment proves that I think

I like that phrase - "unstructured adversity".  The benefit to the outdoors is that it provides plenty of it, ready made, no input from us required.

It's funny, Mrs. VCH and I are different in what we're protective of.  She'll let the little VCH's go run through a creek and think nothing of it, and I am fighting off my urge to reel them back in.  But I'll let them free range in the shop and experiment with hand tools, and she's worried about where they are and what they're getting into.