02Pilot said:
NOHOME said:
So, from a propaganda "The world is united against us" point of view. At what point did the Germans realize they were the "Bad Guys" in WW2
The more interesting question is why did they both come to that realization and accept it. With Germany, we have two lost major 20th Century wars as data points, one after which they never accepted responsibility, and the other in which they accepted it quickly and broadly. What was different?
From my limited understanding that may have had a lot to do with the fact that nearly every square foot of Germany was overrun by conquering boots the second time around. They UNDERSTOOD that they lost. Hitler's big spiel (English or German translation will work here I suppose) about WW1 was that the German politicians had treacherously surrendered while Germany was still capable of pulling off a win. Why, they had hardly gotten on German soil, after all! With the exception of some out of the way places, IIRC, in '45 they fought for it all and lost it all-- and every German man, woman, and child could tell.
Second, from memoirs I've read, word of the atrocities was starting to get out to the common soldier even before it was over. To the point where some saw the writing on the wall that there would be only vilification after the war. I assume that shaped some perspectives.
Third, before it was over there were some military men who recognized the absurdity of it all. Case in point, the German commander of the forces that surrendered in Stalingrad. He was being nudged to commit suicide to which he famously referred to Hitler as "that Austrian corporal."
Lastly, it was by no means universal. Some were just as upset that the glory of their exceptional military struggle had been overshadowed by the dishonor of the Holocaust. Still, though, I haven't yet come across a reputable source who espoused that it was not their fault and that the Sept 1, 1939 propaganda was correct --the nonsense about Poland starting it all. It may all boil down to a mix of absolute occupation, and on the west, occupiers who were in many ways similar in looks, beliefs, values, history (compare that to occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan by westerners) and who were encouraging integration with themselves. To the east, there was the slogan "if we ever have to come to Berlin again, there will no longer be a Berlin" and all that mentality. I can scarcely imagine much public objection in the DDR.
I suppose one more element is that it really truly was their fault, unlike WW1 which seems to my understanding to have been EVERYONE's fault. So that, combined with the occupation stripping away the echo chamber = truth?