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4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury Dork
11/19/09 6:54 a.m.
John Brown wrote:
DrBoost wrote: Carguy, I might not understand where you are coming from so please excuse me if I'm getting WAAAY off the tangent here. I don't see how expecting your tax dollars to actually do what they are slated to do is taking handouts. If I live in one of those houses pictured above in the 2003 photo you can assume I'm not making much money or I'd be living somewhere else. So, how am I supposed to get enough money together to buy a few lots, raze them and clean them up? And even if I could, how much difference would that make? There would have to be a whole bunch of us that were able to get enough money to buy lots, raze them and clean them up to make any appreciable difference. I counted about 11 houses out of 36 lots in the most poplulated block in that pic above. So, each homeowner will have to make his/her mortgage/rent AND purchase almost 4 lots, raze them and clean them up, and then you have one nice block in that he!! hole. I agree, the cycle needs to be broken but with these circumstances the cycle has to be broken from the top. There does appear to be a glimmer of hope that that might just be happening. It just seems to me you are pointing the finger at the people that expect their tax dollars to be working for them. Either way, I'm glad I got out, and I'll never go back. I've been tempted to buy a whole block or two of Detroit real estate, build a house and be the king of my domain......until some gang comes in and kills me. The best part of that is that if a gang came in and killed me and took my stuff, they wouldn't know how to drive a RHD car so my mini would be safe, oh and you can't fit dubs on them, 12's is a stretch even.
... I can drive right handed...

lol but can you wipe left handed?

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt Dork
11/19/09 10:09 a.m.

Here's one idea for how to raise money to raze a couple neighborhoods. Get Hollywood some big tax breaks to film a couple action or disaster movies in Detroit on one condition - that they blow up as many buildings as possible. Who needs elaborate and fake looking special effects when you could buy a couple blocks of houses and a few factories for a tiny fraction of the movie's budget? It'd make some of the most awesome "stuff blowing up" scenes ever filmed.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy Reader
11/19/09 10:45 a.m.
MadScientistMatt wrote: Here's one idea for how to raise money to raze a couple neighborhoods. Get Hollywood some big tax breaks to film a couple action or disaster movies in Detroit on one condition - that they blow up as many buildings as possible. Who needs elaborate and fake looking special effects when you could buy a couple blocks of houses and a few factories for a tiny fraction of the movie's budget? It'd make some of the most awesome "stuff blowing up" scenes ever filmed.

SO brilliant. It would literally be (as long as it was a good movie) the best action movie EVAr!

DrBoost
DrBoost HalfDork
11/19/09 10:52 a.m.

Matt, that makes perfect sense, therefore it will never happen

John Brown
John Brown GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/19/09 11:06 a.m.

Red Dawn is filming right now just 10 miles from where I am standing. I hear there are some Detroit city scenes to be used as well.

dimeadozen
dimeadozen New Reader
11/19/09 11:45 a.m.

The below link was produced in 1965 as part of Detroit's efforts to get the Olympics. It's a sad glimpse of what was/ was planned for Detroit.

City on the Move

I wonder how much of the early attempts at urban planning the mayor gloats about ended up backfiring ?

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
11/19/09 12:15 p.m.

So they're remaking Red Dawn. How can you remake a classic like that? It's like remaking Gone With the Wind. Oh well. My jumpmaster was the technical expert for the original. He later was imprisoned in Brazil for trying to take over Ghana. He broke out of the prison, walked across the Amazon and flew home from there.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/19/09 12:20 p.m.

That is surreal to watch. Wild.

Eric

DrBoost
DrBoost HalfDork
11/19/09 12:32 p.m.

Yeah, that was an interesting watch, sad to see what once was planned, and what once was.
Reading some of the comments I found a couple good ones:
"It's a real pity that all that culture is now wasted on a populace that considers a bucket of chicken, a couple of 40's and a Snoop Dog CD "high art"."
"Too bad the glorious promise all went south after the riots. The perpetrators forced good people out,...Kwame Kirkpatrick is the result."

petegossett
petegossett GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/19/09 1:18 p.m.
HiTempguy wrote:
MadScientistMatt wrote: Here's one idea for how to raise money to raze a couple neighborhoods. Get Hollywood some big tax breaks to film a couple action or disaster movies in Detroit on one condition - that they blow up as many buildings as possible. Who needs elaborate and fake looking special effects when you could buy a couple blocks of houses and a few factories for a tiny fraction of the movie's budget? It'd make some of the most awesome "stuff blowing up" scenes ever filmed.
SO brilliant. It would literally be (as long as it was a good movie) the best action movie EVAr!

Add a car chase or 3 into the mix to. Heck, it sounds like you do one of those home-made "Escape from wherever" type-films & no one would probably even notice!

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
11/19/09 2:22 p.m.

So, from what you guys have been saying and what's out there, Detroit is looking a whole lot like Mogadishu. A lawless no-man's land. Thank God they don't have hurricanes up there. Is the whole city that bad, or just a few pockets?

DrBoost
DrBoost HalfDork
11/19/09 6:23 p.m.

It's really that bad (not Mog, but real bad), there are pockets of decentness, but they aren't real big

griffin729
griffin729 Reader
11/19/09 10:09 p.m.
DrBoost wrote: It's really that bad (not Mog, but real bad), there are pockets of decentness, but they aren't real big

There a pockets that are good but by and large pretty much the whole city, except for downtown is like that.

NYG95GA
NYG95GA SuperDork
11/19/09 11:08 p.m.

This thread intrigues me, even though I live a thousand miles from Detroit. Some things about human nature remain the same, whether it's in Metropolis, or Hootersville.

The socialogical forces at work in Detroit (and many other cities) can be seen everyday in many neighborhoods, a microcosm, if you will.

My family owns a number of rental houses in various sorts of areas. Years ago, we sold off all our duplexes. Many beginning landlords grab these up, enticed by the prospect of doubling the income for the property, but in real practice, this is what happens..

You have a property (duplex or subdivision.. matters not; just a matter of degree). Half of the property is producing, with a quality tenant who takes care of the property.. if care is not taken to match the prospective new tenant to the existing one, in your haste you may rent to a "bad" element.

After a time, the good tenant tires of the bad tenant, and moves out. Now you are stuck with an undesirable in one side, and nobody in the other. What are the chances of renting out the now vacant side to a good tenant, once they learn the nature of the guy next door?

In the larger scenario of subdivisions, the Gubbmint takes on the role of landlord, now trying to coax cooperation in people who mix like oil and water. Civil and social services are stressed trying to ease local tension, much like a landlord is often called to smooth out arguments between neighboring tenants.

The bad almost always forces out the good. I'm sorry if that sounds judgemental, but in practice, that's the nature of the beast.

What we need is more "good" people.. like y'all.

neon4891
neon4891 SuperDork
11/19/09 11:10 p.m.

I wonder what an entire abandoned block would go for?

Schmidlap
Schmidlap Reader
11/19/09 11:24 p.m.

There are pockets that are absolutely incredible, and there are pockets that are absolute crap, and there are pockets that are just like you'd find in any city around the US.

A few of the incredible neighbourhoods in Detroit are:

Indian Village: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Village_Historic_District

Boston-Edison: http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=boston-edison%20detroit&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Unfortunately, you go two blocks out of those neighbourhoods and you're in a run down, crime-ridden neighbourhood (both hire their own security guards to partrol the streets 24/7).

The entire city used to be an architectural gem (at least that's what I'm told) Hell, here's the old 8th precinct police station, (that someone is trying to turn into condo's now):

Unfortunately, hundreds, if not thousands of buildings with this kind of character have either burned down, been completely stripped for their scrap metal value (by people other than the owners), rotted away, or have been knocked down for some failed real estate project, and the city has lost a lot of it's character.

I think that much like the perception the vast majority of the public has about the Big 3 (poor design, crappy quality, high cost) parallels the perception of the City of Detroit. Sure, some of the Big 3's cars have been ugly lemons, but many have been incredibly well designed, high quality cars, at a fair price. Mention Detroit to someone from outside of the city and they'll immediately think of a crime-ridden wasteland (that's the first thing I usually think of too), but none of them know about the great things this city has to offer. Over the last few years the Superbowl, baseball All-Star game, and Final Four have shown that Detroit can do really well, and hopefully the city can continue to build on this and, like the Big 3 (hopefully) turn things around.

Bob

carguy123
carguy123 Dork
11/19/09 11:27 p.m.

Perception is reality.

Once people perceive an area is worthless and no one wants to live there then miraculously it becomes that. This is definitely where one individual buyer more or less will be able to make a difference. It will take a big developer or a huge media interest to be the shock that crystallizes the solution and suddenly things will become viable.

924guy
924guy Dork
11/20/09 7:43 a.m.

never been there, but reading through here, a thought occurred to me. Could just be a crazy idea, but...

In order for any area to succeed, you need jobs, and a workforce, seems to me the latter is there, but not the former. So i wonder if the city has tried any homestead type of programs.

Id bet the city now owns by default thousands upon thousands of properties, both residential and commercial. why not offer those properties for free, or nearly free to anyone who can improve them?

give a large commercial building to a manufacturer, so long as they guarantee to employ "X" amount of people for a predetermine time, and improve/repair the property.

Give an empty block of residential property to anyone who can guarantee that all the condemned properties on that block will be torn down within "X" amount of time, and maintain it to a certain standard, or farm it or ...

offer tax exceptions along with the free, or nearly free property for doing so, for the new "owners" on a sliding rate relative to their compliance with the terms.
the city will lose real property tax income (that their not getting now anyhow) and gain employers , and income tax, and have the homesteaders remove the derelict buildings at the same time..

if the new people fail to abide by the terms, toss em and make it available to someone else..

of course people or companies would be need to be able to prove they can do what they've agreed too beforehand, but it just seems a fairly simple solution to a very complex problem to me.

carguy123
carguy123 Dork
11/20/09 9:29 a.m.

924driver there's only one thing wrong with your scenario, not many employers will willingly go into a Union state. The Unions have pretty well run the businesses out of the state. I think it'd make a great theme park - the whole state!

DrBoost
DrBoost HalfDork
11/20/09 10:34 a.m.

924guy, Flint is trying something similar right now. They are trying to use the college campuses they have to make the city into a "younger" city and attract young professionals. They have taken a few derilect buildings and built some higher end lofts. IIRC, if you move into one, you are 100% state and local tax free for 6 years or so. And that area of Flint isn't terrible. I could see a scheme like you propose doing some good, but like carguy said, not many companies are willing to move into a union state, and the politicos aren't willing to mess with the union..........and the cycle continues............

petegossett
petegossett GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/20/09 11:01 a.m.

Oooh, Mott College in Flint - I remember riding/skating on their signs as a kid while visiting.

jamscal
jamscal HalfDork
11/20/09 9:33 p.m.
MadScientistMatt wrote: Here's one idea for how to raise money to raze a couple neighborhoods. Get Hollywood some big tax breaks to film a couple action or disaster movies in Detroit on one condition - that they blow up as many buildings as possible. Who needs elaborate and fake looking special effects when you could buy a couple blocks of houses and a few factories for a tiny fraction of the movie's budget? It'd make some of the most awesome "stuff blowing up" scenes ever filmed.

Leathal Weapon 3

I'm pretty sure they bought a bankrupt/partially completed housing development and burned/trashed it for the movie.

(So there is a precedent)

924guy
924guy Dork
11/21/09 7:38 a.m.

I find it sad the unions have become a major part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. sounds like theyre trying to milk a dead cow, instead of adjusting to the current conditions to protect their members. pretty much opposite of what they were originally intended to do, its a shame...

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/21/09 11:20 a.m.

so, what's the little two-seater at 13:21? is it an early Honda S600?

DrBoost
DrBoost HalfDork
11/22/09 5:50 a.m.

Yeah 924 hit the nail on the head. The unions aren't the problem (well, at least not THIS problem) but they are a contributing factor. Thanks to them Michigan has a huge asterisk next to it when a company is considering it for a possible location.
What kills me is that will all these vacant buildings, many with HUGE parking lots our local Alfa club still can't fine many decent places to run. I mean Look at the sea of concrete at the Ford Wixom plant that's just sitting around doing nothing, screaming for an awsome auto-X course

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