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GlennS
GlennS Dork
10/4/11 1:35 a.m.

In reply to novaderrik:

What i would "want" is an immigration policy that is enforced. Our current system is a complete joke and a total failure.

Open the borders. Everyone gets to be an american! Fine, its enforceable. No new immigrants. Anyone who employs one goes to jail with a minimum sentence. Fine, much more enforceable then our current crap system.

If we continue to pursue a policy that, in effect, encourages coming to the U.S. illegally then we should weigh the pros and cons of educating our illegal immigrant population. I think the social benefits of educating our illegal immigrants far outweighs the cons.

Your way, kicking them out, i believe to be extremely ineffective. Its expensive and many of the people simply re enter the country after being deported. Decades of deportations has done nothing to stem the tide of people illegally entering the country. I doubt additional enforcement will have a major impact. If your goal is to pursue an effective, enforceable immigration policy then i propose attacking the demand side of the equation. Remove the demand for illegal immigrant labor and illegal immigrant labor will self deport, free of charge.

I don't think a serious effort to attack the demand side will materialize in the near future though because it's much easier to demonize the people who are different from a far away land then the local business owners who encourage them to enter the U.S. illegally.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
10/4/11 5:47 a.m.
carguy123 wrote: Well since the U.S. doesn't have an official language you can't require them to learn English. The idea of an official language was voted down in the 80's as being superfluous since everyone KNEW we all spoke English. I don't understand why citizenship isn't checked on all kids? It is in other countries. I don't know why you don't have to prove you are eligible to receive any "free" service that is for citizens. That's kinda like a ticket to get in. If you go to a movie theater they won't let you into the auditorium without a ticket. They'll let you mingle in the lobby and buy the overpriced food, but no tickee, no laundry. That's pretty basic. I have seen the argument that the kids shouldn't suffer for the parent's misteaks, but maybe the free education (and other things) is why the parents are making these "misteaks". The reward exceeds the penalty.

Just last night I missed my steak when I had to eat left overs for dinner...That was a real mistake.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
10/4/11 5:52 a.m.

If "most" second gen hispanics are fluent in English, why do ATM's. Lowe's, Home Depot, etc... have to print or say everything in English AND Spanish?
To me this issue is really easy for anyone that understands the word "illegal".

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
10/4/11 5:54 a.m.

"Open the borders. Everyone gets to be an american! Fine, its enforceable. No new immigrants. Anyone who employs one goes to jail with a minimum sentence. Fine, much more enforceable then our current crap system. "

Think all the Mexican drug lords would come over legally? Opening the borders would just bring all (instead of some) the corruption and crime of Mexico into the US. We have enough of that already, we don't need more.

cardiacdog
cardiacdog Reader
10/4/11 10:11 a.m.

Glad there were a few people taking the usual potshots at Alabama. Yep it sucks here, so don't come visit Barber so it leaves more time for me and my pick up to make some laps! Well it's not really a pick up.

As far as immigration, the system is definitely screwed and like a lot of things in our great country, we are so damn divided we can't find a solution. The law that if you are born here, you and yours get citizenship is just stupid and needs to be changed. The writers of that piece of legislation probably didn't expect a flood of people trying to jump the border drop a baby and get citizenship. The drug thing is a big part of the solution. I say legalize pot, "control it" (if that is humanly possible), and that makes the illegal profit part go way down and we decrease guns going to Mexico and decrease the cartels and murders there. We'll probably being talking about this in 15 more years with nothing really accomplished.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
10/4/11 10:28 a.m.

In reply to cardiacdog:

You make some good points. But I think the problem with legalizing pot or anything else is that controlling it is something the government would need to do, and they don't seem to run any operation well. That said, I don't have an answer.

ransom
ransom GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
10/4/11 10:34 a.m.

In reply to bravenrace:

I agree that the control part doesn't seem to go very well. That being said, we don't have alcohol cartels.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy Dork
10/4/11 10:43 a.m.
cardiacdog wrote: Snip>

Uh, I think pot is the least of your guys worries coming over the messican border. Stopping the coke would be angood start...

cardiacdog
cardiacdog Reader
10/4/11 10:52 a.m.

I'm not sure about the statistics but isn't marijuana the number one drug smuggled into the US? And I agree that our government would probably screw up the management of said system. Irrespectively, our country is seemingly on a slippery slope downward and I'm scared for my kids futures. We have enjoyed prosperity as a country that is almost unmatched in history but the times they be a changing rapidly.

grpb
grpb New Reader
10/4/11 11:26 a.m.
Osterkraut wrote:
MitchellC wrote: Most Hispanic immigrants are fully fluent in English by the second generation... I have read that this is much, much faster than immigrants of different lineages in our nation's past.
The Irish beg to differ.

Thank goodnes this is true. No red blooded american ears need to be assaulted by the sound of Gaelic or Welsh or Magyar or Polski or Maltese for any more time than is necessary to assimilate. The goal of all these new immigrants should be the same as real americans born here to 'legal immigrants', to forget who they were and where they came from as quickly as possible. So that when their grandparents speak to them in their native tongue, their parents will quickly step in and say, oh we don't speak that anymore. The sooner the better. Hip hip, Homogeneity!

When I was an ethnicity, I spoke as one, I understood as one, I thought as one: but when I became an American, I put away ethnic things.

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie Dork
10/4/11 11:59 a.m.
Wally wrote: They live in Alabama. Isn't that punishment enough?

Probably. Here in Texas we still have jobs for them.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
10/4/11 12:35 p.m.
cardiacdog wrote: Irrespectively, our country is seemingly on a slippery slope downward and I'm scared for my kids futures. We have enjoyed prosperity as a country that is almost unmatched in history but the times they be a changing rapidly.

Quoted for truth. I don't think the majority of Romans anticipated the fall either....

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
10/4/11 12:35 p.m.
ransom wrote: In reply to bravenrace: I agree that the control part doesn't seem to go very well. That being said, we don't have alcohol cartels.

No, just AA.

ransom
ransom GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
10/4/11 12:45 p.m.

In reply to bravenrace:

Yesindeedy we do. We also have NA, so we have half as many problems with alcohol as with drugs

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
10/4/11 2:14 p.m.
cardiacdog wrote: I'm not sure about the statistics but isn't marijuana the number one drug smuggled into the US? And I agree that our government would probably screw up the management of said system. Irrespectively, our country is seemingly on a slippery slope downward and I'm scared for my kids futures. We have enjoyed prosperity as a country that is almost unmatched in history but the times they be a changing rapidly.

Marijuana is basically legal in California, Colorado, Alaska, and a host of other states are considering legalizing it for "medicinal" purposes. Life goes on in these states as it did before, only now they have much, much more tax revenue. Legalized marijuana is on it's way, it will just take a bit more time for those in other states to realize the $$ they are losing, and what a giant industry (job-creation) it can be.

A lot of the over-border crime has to do with the insane amounts of $$ the cartels are making in the U.S. off of the drug trade. Cut off their dealers, and make them register with the gov. as a "authorized grower" and see if they survive "above ground".

Legalize it (at least pot), tax it, regulate it, and the crime will diminish just as did after alcohol prohibition.

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
10/4/11 2:21 p.m.
Joe Gearin wrote:
cardiacdog wrote: I'm not sure about the statistics but isn't marijuana the number one drug smuggled into the US? And I agree that our government would probably screw up the management of said system. Irrespectively, our country is seemingly on a slippery slope downward and I'm scared for my kids futures. We have enjoyed prosperity as a country that is almost unmatched in history but the times they be a changing rapidly.
Marijuana is basically legal in California, Colorado, Alaska, and a host of other states are considering legalizing it for "medicinal" purposes. Life goes on in these states as it did before, only now they have much, much more tax revenue. Legalized marijuana is on it's way, it will just take a bit more time for those in other states to realize the $$ they are losing, and what a giant industry (job-creation) it can be. A lot of the over-border crime has to do with the insane amounts of $$ the cartels are making in the U.S. off of the drug trade. Cut off their dealers, and make them register with the gov. as a "authorized grower" and see if they survive "above ground". Legalize it (at least pot), tax it, regulate it, and the crime will diminish just as did after alcohol prohibition.

And unfortunately moral values will decline.

Otto Maddox
Otto Maddox Dork
10/4/11 2:24 p.m.

Have felons pick our crops?

One crew of felons who went to work for Dick Minor, a farmer and the president of the Georgia Fruit and Vegetable Growers Association, all quit by mid afternoon on their first day in the fields. On another farm, a group of experienced Hispanic workers filled six trucks full of cucumbers in a day. A similar sized group of probationers working on the same farm only managed to pick one truckload.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
10/4/11 2:24 p.m.
bravenrace wrote:
Joe Gearin wrote:
cardiacdog wrote: I'm not sure about the statistics but isn't marijuana the number one drug smuggled into the US? And I agree that our government would probably screw up the management of said system. Irrespectively, our country is seemingly on a slippery slope downward and I'm scared for my kids futures. We have enjoyed prosperity as a country that is almost unmatched in history but the times they be a changing rapidly.
Marijuana is basically legal in California, Colorado, Alaska, and a host of other states are considering legalizing it for "medicinal" purposes. Life goes on in these states as it did before, only now they have much, much more tax revenue. Legalized marijuana is on it's way, it will just take a bit more time for those in other states to realize the $$ they are losing, and what a giant industry (job-creation) it can be. A lot of the over-border crime has to do with the insane amounts of $$ the cartels are making in the U.S. off of the drug trade. Cut off their dealers, and make them register with the gov. as a "authorized grower" and see if they survive "above ground". Legalize it (at least pot), tax it, regulate it, and the crime will diminish just as did after alcohol prohibition.
And unfortunately moral values will decline.

Not a trick question, just curious....

Would you be for Prohibition of alcohol?

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
10/4/11 2:25 p.m.

????

What does morality have to do with using a drug? Am I a less decent person if I take asprin? smoke a cigarette? drink a beer?

Morality comes from how you were raised to treat others, not how you decide to medicate yourself.

that's my .02 at least

Otto Maddox
Otto Maddox Dork
10/4/11 2:25 p.m.

In reply to bravenrace:

Smoking pot is immoral? Alcohol too?

In any case, I agree 100% with Joe.

wbjones
wbjones SuperDork
10/4/11 3:11 p.m.
Brett_Murphy wrote: Puerto Rico is a U.S. Commonwealth Territory. It has the same President, plus they are represented in Congress, if I recall correctly. Everyone born there is a U.S. citizen, and you don't require a passport to travel there. There is a lot of debate there if Puerto Rico should become a state, become a sovereign nation or remain a US Territory.

guess we need a "I'm kidding" smiley... ... I realize that PI is a US Commonwealth Territory ... several other places are to some degree or another .... District of Columbia, US Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and Northern Mariana Islands....

bravenrace
bravenrace SuperDork
10/4/11 3:11 p.m.

In reply to Joe Gearin:

Making it legal goes way beyond medication. Make it more available and more people (including kids) will smoke it. One more mind altering thing they can do to end up kiling themselves or others in a car wreck.
I guess everyone decides for themselves what is moral and what isn't, but in my opinion it certainly isn't going in the right direction.

Keith
Keith GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/4/11 3:40 p.m.
Ojala wrote: 5. If someone wants to become an American citizen they need to learn English. If they are just here to work and make some money who cares what language they speak.

Actually, there is an English language component to the naturalization process. It's not terribly hard, but it's there.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
10/4/11 3:54 p.m.
bravenrace wrote: In reply to Joe Gearin: Making it legal goes way beyond medication. Make it more available and more people (including kids) will smoke it. One more mind altering thing they can do to end up kiling themselves or others in a car wreck. I guess everyone decides for themselves what is moral and what isn't, but in my opinion it certainly isn't going in the right direction.

I hear your point, but I have to disagree. If a 16 year old wants to get weed today, all he has to do is ask one of 15 kids at school who deal it illegally. If the same teen wants to get beer, he has to get a fake ID, or con an older sibling into buying it, or stake out a liquor store and ask someone to buy for them......it is much more difficult.

I'm under the opinion that if you legalize marijuana it will make it harder for kids to get ahold of it. Adults over 21 will be able to have access to the drug (some of whom it can really help--medically speaking) Sure kids will still find a way, but it will be more difficult than it is now.

It would also help to decrease the intense crime that our border towns are trying to deal with.

again just my .02

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
10/4/11 3:55 p.m.
bravenrace wrote: In reply to Joe Gearin: Making it legal goes way beyond medication. Make it more available and more people (including kids) will smoke it. One more mind altering thing they can do to end up kiling themselves or others in a car wreck. I guess everyone decides for themselves what is moral and what isn't, but in my opinion it certainly isn't going in the right direction.

Wouldn't a good moral compass in your eyes prevent them from smoking it? It's not the government's job to do the parenting/instilling of morals.

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