I've been given the task of procuring a keyboard for the theater, but I'm a vocalist not a pianist and severely out of the loop on the tech. We have an upright that we use for rehearsals but it is in pretty sad shape. It's also a one-trick pony. I can't just throw it in the car for a performance, nor is it a quality sound. It just makes noise and doesn't suck.
Will be used as a rehearsal piano, but will also be used in performances so it needs to be synth. I need to put it in front of a pianist in a pit orchestra and have them hook up their iPad and make patchy/soundy things happen. Obviously does not need amp/speakers. Occasional recording/midi duties.
I was shopping for my brother a while ago, though he didn't end up actually buying as his rav needed a new rack that week and then life... anyway, do you have a budget? It seemed like for an 88 key (weighted) synth, prices for non-junk seemed to start around $400. Of course the sky is the limit on the other end.
Less keys opens up options, or there are small synth/midi keyboards that are quite capable for pretty cheap. Most are like two octave keyboards but have sample/drum pads and other tools. Do you could get aYamaha piaggero 76 key piano for $329 on Sweetwater and add anAkai mpk mini for "other stuff" for $120. Bonus points for having 80s synth band stacked keyboard stage presence.
This is not a "search noob" post, but we did have quite a discussion on keyboards here recently. Of which you were a part :)
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/electric-keyboard-piano-recommendations/184529/page1/
From your comments in there, I'd suggest you enlist your pianist in the search so she'll actually play in the pit band. It would seem a Clavinova is what you want. Just about any digital piano will have MIDI output, I expect, so there's your synth and patches - the keyboard just becomes a controller.
I'm not a musician but I am married to one and I've done a lot of audio engineer work and purchased a lot of equipment for various organizations.
Do you have midi gear to produce all the weird sounds or do you need something with a lot of different patches?
If you're going to replace a piano with a keyboard you're going to need something with weighted keys and a really good piano sound otherwise every real pianist who uses it is going to be unhappy.
What's your budget?
Keith Tanner said:
This is not a "search noob" post, but we did have quite a discussion on keyboards here recently. Of which you were a part :)
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/electric-keyboard-piano-recommendations/184529/page1/
From your comments in there, I'd suggest you enlist your pianist in the search so she'll actually play in the pit band. It would seem a Clavinova is what you want. Just about any digital piano will have MIDI output, I expect, so there's your synth and patches - the keyboard just becomes a controller.
I know a fair amount about electronic keyboards but the midi/patch/computer part of it I'm clueless.
APEowner said:
I'm not a musician but I am married to one and I've done a lot of audio engineer work and purchased a lot of equipment for various organizations.
Do you have midi gear to produce all the weird sounds or do you need something with a lot of different patches?
If you're going to replace a piano with a keyboard you're going to need something with weighted keys and a really good piano sound otherwise every real pianist who uses it is going to be unhappy.
What's your budget?
No set budget. That's part of this discussion so I know how much to write the grant for. Y'all might say I can get a good used one for $250 or you might say I can't really get what I want until I spend $1500.
For the most part, the pianists have their own iPad or laptop and we often purchase patches that go with the show if they're not part of the common ones. You never know when a musical will need "out of tune banjo" or "whale song." The theater also has an iPad but it's a smaller one that isn't preferred since some of them digitize the sheet music as well. Some of them have their own keyboards and volunteer the use of it, but some players follow the more customary rental paradigm. It's not expensive but I'm figuring I can save money in the long run if we own one. Also much nicer to have one on-site instead of musicians packing up their own to bring in for every rehearsal or performance especially if they have gigs in between.
But, in the process of getting a keyboard I want it to attract players, not make them groan when they have to play something subpar.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
Keith Tanner said:
This is not a "search noob" post, but we did have quite a discussion on keyboards here recently. Of which you were a part :)
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/electric-keyboard-piano-recommendations/184529/page1/
From your comments in there, I'd suggest you enlist your pianist in the search so she'll actually play in the pit band. It would seem a Clavinova is what you want. Just about any digital piano will have MIDI output, I expect, so there's your synth and patches - the keyboard just becomes a controller.
I know a fair amount about electronic keyboards but the midi/patch/computer part of it I'm clueless.
The MIDI part is pretty straightforward. It's just a signal that says something like "someone just pressed middle C THIS hard" and "ok, they released it". There are also control commands such as "switch to instrument 4". There are different channels so you can send those signals on channel 1 or 3 or whatever.
Something has to be listening, of course. That's where you have a computer or a synth or some sort of noise maker listening for a command to play middle C or switch to instrument 4. That can be all sorts of things. I've got a couple of drum machines, a Sound Canvas synth, a Minimoog clone, a TB-303 clone, a computer, an iPad, a laptop and a DX7 that can all speak MIDI. Some of them can only respond (such as the Sound Canvas), some can be controllers or be controlled (such as the DX7).
It's a nice standard set of commands that have been around since the early 80s, so it's really easy to just plug things together. Want your Clavinova to play whale sounds? No worries, just attach a MIDI cable from MIDI OUT on the keyboard to MIDI IN on the whale sound noise maker and set them both to the same channel. You can also chain them together so you can have a whale sound generator plugged into an out of tune banjo generator plugged into a keyboard and the two sound generators can be listening to different channels. It doesn't really matter if the thing that's making the noise is a computer with sound files or a drum machine or whatever.
So really, you can take the ability to make whale sounds as a given. Get a good digital piano and it should have MIDI.
IIRC you can use MIDI to control lighting as well.
Unfortunately the Clavinova doesn't have midi. It's also not really easy to move.
Something like this seems like it would work well for you:
Yamaha P-515B 88-key Digital Piano with Speakers - Black | Sweetwater
It has its own speakers, so it can work in a small rehearsal setting without having to rig up a PA for it. In a performance setting, it should provide a feel close enough to a real piano that performers will be comfortable on it. It's a bit lacking in built-in sounds, so you may need an outboard sampler/synthesizer or computer interface via MIDI for sound effects.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
Unfortunately the Clavinova doesn't have midi. It's also not really easy to move.
Are you sure? MIDI is such a normal thing now that it's rarely mentioned in marketing materials. Looking at Yamaha's site, every Clavinova sold today has MIDI capability, you just have to look at the spec sheet to see it. The form factor varies as well, which affects how easy they are to move. The closer to you get to a proper piano action, the heavier that critter is going to be. So I guess you have to decide how much you want to compromise portability versus piano emulation. Note that I do not have a particular preference for Clavinova, it's what you called out in that previous thread so I'm using it as an example :)
Calling Sweetwater would probably be well worth your while. Their product support and technical knowledge is fantastic.
The Yamaha that Ian F pointed out is likely a good choice. I don't have any personal experience with that particular model but Yamaha generally makes good instruments and the no longer available and slightly less feature rich Yamaha p-95 that my wife has been gigging with for the last decade has been great. If you think the P-515B is likely a tough sell the more entry level Yamaha P-125 will get you 90% there. There are diminishing returns as you go for more expensive keyboards.
Keith Tanner said:
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
Unfortunately the Clavinova doesn't have midi. It's also not really easy to move.
Are you sure? MIDI is such a normal thing now that it's rarely mentioned in marketing materials. Looking at Yamaha's site, every Clavinova sold today has MIDI capability, you just have to look at the spec sheet to see it. The form factor varies as well, which affects how easy they are to move. The closer to you get to a proper piano action, the heavier that critter is going to be. So I guess you have to decide how much you want to compromise portability versus piano emulation. Note that I do not have a particular preference for Clavinova, it's what you called out in that previous thread so I'm using it as an example :)
Calling Sweetwater would probably be well worth your while. Their product support and technical knowledge is fantastic.
No midi port, and the build sticker suggests it was built in 1988.
I stopped in a Guitar Center but whiffed on remembering Sweetwater. Thanks.
I thought you were looking for recommendations, not that you already had a Clavinova in the stable. I guess that may be the upright you mentioned in the first post, I assumed that was an acoustic piano. If you want MIDI, it's definitely worth looking for something that's no more than 30 years old.
Regardless, if you have a fussy pianist you're trying to assuage (as implied in the other thread), I'd get the fussy pianist involved in the discussion about the "right" action. After a certain point, it becomes a matter of taste and you'll see people claiming keyboard X has both the best action they've ever played and the worst action this side of a pocket-sized Casio. The MIDI part - assuming the keyboard was built in the past three decades - is pretty much a given.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:
Something like this seems like it would work well for you:
Yamaha P-515B 88-key Digital Piano with Speakers - Black | Sweetwater
It has its own speakers, so it can work in a small rehearsal setting without having to rig up a PA for it. In a performance setting, it should provide a feel close enough to a real piano that performers will be comfortable on it. It's a bit lacking in built-in sounds, so you may need an outboard sampler/synthesizer or computer interface via MIDI for sound effects.
We bought a previous version of this for my daughter about 10 years ago. It’s a pretty capable instrument.
Keith Tanner said:
I thought you were looking for recommendations, not that you already had a Clavinova in the stable. I guess that may be the upright you mentioned in the first post, I assumed that was an acoustic piano. If you want MIDI, it's definitely worth looking for something that's no more than 30 years old.
Regardless, if you have a fussy pianist you're trying to assuage (as implied in the other thread), I'd get the fussy pianist involved in the discussion about the "right" action. After a certain point, it becomes a matter of taste and you'll see people claiming keyboard X has both the best action they've ever played and the worst action this side of a pocket-sized Casio. The MIDI part - assuming the keyboard was built in the past three decades - is pretty much a given.
I do have a long-term-borrowed 1988 Clavinova. Belongs to a board member and lives here most of the time unless she has a gig which is only about twice a year. It's about 125 lbs and has your choice of organ, small grand, large grand sounds. I also have a 3/4 upright acoustic piano. Neither of them are what I'd call portable (half of our musicals are produced at a larger theater downtown) and neither one has the versatility we need for most pit performances. Our production of Spongebob last fall had 32 patches for Foley so we tossed a little extra to the keyboardist to use his iPad and Roland. I'm trying to have a do-it-all package ready to go that can handle whatever we throw at it.
I have emails from 7 pianists who play for us from time to time... with 7 different recommendations of course. It's not that they're all fussy, it's just that having nice equipment pays huge dividends in production quality. Like giving an artist good brushes, or giving a vocalist a good microphone. When the artist is happy....
In GRM speak... One pianist says Miata, another says RX7, another says MR2... but none of them would complain if they had to drive a Z06 for the week. I'm looking for the Z06 version of a keyboard. Hence why I'm asking the braintrust for additional input.
I have no comment about digital keyboards, but has any music or musician played the outer keys on an 88 key piano ever?
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
Umm... Yes? In nearly every piano performance I've seen, the player uses pretty much the entire keyboard.
Curtis - it might be worth giving Sweetwater a call and describing what you need and your rough budget.
