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ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
12/1/22 1:19 p.m.
No Time said:

I'm probably going to regret stirring this, but....

 I have to disagree on the manual transmission. 

Im not sure why you think there's a lot of slippage needed to get moving, just a light touch on the throttle and smooth operation of the clutch can avoid the need to abuse the clutch.  

With an auto, when you are stopped, you can apply any amount of torque to the wheels from 0-peak torque @ stall RPM.  With a manual applying below some threshold is really hard/taxing on the clutch and if your speed doesnt increase to whatever is ~1000rpm in 1st gear, you have to continuously slip the clutch.

When you want to apply an insanely low torque to the wheels - enough to get you moving, but not enough to slip the wheels, a manual isn't the best tool for the job.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/1/22 1:28 p.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

I can recall many times where, with an automatic, the drive wheels would start slipping before the brake was fully released.  You cannot apply zero torque with an automatic in gear.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
12/1/22 1:37 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

I can recall many times where, with an automatic, the drive wheels would start slipping before the brake was fully released.  You cannot apply zero torque with an automatic in gear.

0 torque is somewhere before full brake release, but its achievable.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
12/1/22 1:56 p.m.

Funny I saw this thread pop up and forgot all about starting it just over a year ago.  My FWD Mazda CX-9's tires should be just about bald by the time it snows, so I'll be well-prepared.  cheeky

I can't even imagine why I started such a thread, unless it had something to do with No. 1 Son's 4WD 6-speed manual Dodge 1500, which might well see snow this winter and is sporting 4 new Continental TerrainContact AT tires.

crankwalk (Forum Supporter)
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/1/22 3:48 p.m.

I agree on the automatic probably being better on snow/ice. Probably not as fun but better overall getting point a to point b with less drama.. My wife's AWD Prius on all weather tires is really nice to drive in the winter. Even with the electronic Nannies, the electric rear diff and cvt does a superb job.

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/1/22 6:23 p.m.

Q: Overall THE BEST vehicle for driving in snow

A: Someone elses vehicle

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/1/22 6:28 p.m.
ProDarwin said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

I can recall many times where, with an automatic, the drive wheels would start slipping before the brake was fully released.  You cannot apply zero torque with an automatic in gear.

0 torque is somewhere before full brake release, but its achievable.

And then when the tires are spinning while the brakes are still applied?

I was winter-trained to just flow with it and burn down to clean pavement, so the point is moot there.  All the same it was kind of amusing to be stopped at a light, then realize you didn't have your foot on the brake hard enough because the back of the car was wiggling around smiley

1SlowVW
1SlowVW Dork
12/1/22 7:54 p.m.

My last response was far too reasoned so I'll try again.

In the last 5 years trappers and people who live and travel in the far north seem to have gone away from the simple two stroke sleds (bravo / scandic 380) and gone to newer four strokes. So if people who travel in subzero temps relying on snowmobiles to get them home and harvest food and firewood say that the new scandic swt is the best it's hard to argue. 
 

 

No Time
No Time UltraDork
12/1/22 9:22 p.m.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I will admit I have driven some cars where first was tall enough that I could see where the concerns about clutch slipping come from, but I find it hard to see how feathering the clutch enough to get moving in winter conditions would be damaging unless someone was trying to do that continuously to creep along for extended distances. 

I grew up driving mostly 2wd pickups through winters in Massachusetts (central and western) for the first 15 years I was driving. They were used to pull snowmobile trailers and get to work regardless of the weather (trucking companies rarely shut down the break bulk hub terminal).

They varied from square body full size Chevys, square body s10s, B2200, and 99 ranger.  I would shovel the snow around the truck into the bed for weight right after the storm and it would melt away in a couple days, around the same time the roads were down to bare pavement.

It may be that the gearing in the trucks made the experience different from other vehicles. Crawling along at less that 1000 rpm wasn't an issue, 500-600 was possible, even with the clutch fully engaged.  

 

No Time
No Time UltraDork
12/1/22 9:30 p.m.
ProDarwin said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

I can recall many times where, with an automatic, the drive wheels would start slipping before the brake was fully released.  You cannot apply zero torque with an automatic in gear.

0 torque is somewhere before full brake release, but its achievable.

The problem with that is you have overlap between when your torque at the drive wheels goes past zero and starts to increase while the brakes on the non drive wheels are still applied creating additional drag to overcome to get moving. 

crankwalk (Forum Supporter)
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/1/22 11:07 p.m.
1SlowVW said:

My last response was far too reasoned so I'll try again.

In the last 5 years trappers and people who live and travel in the far north seem to have gone away from the simple two stroke sleds (bravo / scandic 380) and gone to newer four strokes. So if people who travel in subzero temps relying on snowmobiles to get them home and harvest food and firewood say that the new scandic swt is the best it's hard to argue. 
 

 

Well I mean when fuel is $12 a gallon and you're not on the actual road system they are handy. laugh

1SlowVW
1SlowVW Dork
12/2/22 7:49 a.m.

In reply to crankwalk (Forum Supporter) :

I didn't see any mention of roads in the title question. 
Tell me a better way to get through a couple hundred miles of snow covered land? 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
12/2/22 9:11 a.m.
No Time said:
ProDarwin said:
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

I can recall many times where, with an automatic, the drive wheels would start slipping before the brake was fully released.  You cannot apply zero torque with an automatic in gear.

0 torque is somewhere before full brake release, but its achievable.

The problem with that is you have overlap between when your torque at the drive wheels goes past zero and starts to increase while the brakes on the non drive wheels are still applied creating additional drag to overcome to get moving. 

We are discussing the theoretical best vehicle for driving in the snow.  All wheels are drive wheels

crankwalk (Forum Supporter)
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/2/22 11:20 a.m.
1SlowVW said:

In reply to crankwalk (Forum Supporter) :

I didn't see any mention of roads in the title question. 
Tell me a better way to get through a couple hundred miles of snow covered land? 


If we are going to go there, this how we do it here in Alaska. Thousand miles, no fossil fuels. Runs on chum salmon and belly rubs. Preaching to the choir!

pheller
pheller UltimaDork
12/2/22 12:28 p.m.
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) said:
pheller said:

Suggestions for good chains or other type of traction adder for 33" truck tires? 

Find a shop with a siping knife or do it yourself. Could stud them yourself but then that's your winter set permanently. 


Do you just want chains for the occasional deep snow day or everyday through the winter? I would not use chains everyday for winter driving when you're going to get on the highway eventually. 

 

Occasional super deep snow. 

Current tires on the truck are snowflake rated so they do pretty good but I want to carry chains or cables just in case. 

crankwalk (Forum Supporter)
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/2/22 12:58 p.m.

In reply to pheller :

I'd get the chains that are easiest to install when you're already stuck just in case you get buried before you have a chains to put them on. Nobody plans on doing that but you know how it is. I'll take easy install over durability considering you'll use them so sparingly.

I know konig makes some easy install ones but not sure if they go up to truck sized profiles.

KyAllroad
KyAllroad MegaDork
12/2/22 1:37 p.m.

I've had a few AWD/4WD vehicles:

1999 Jeep Cherokee

2001 Audi Allroad

2005 Phaeton

2000 Jeep Wrangler

2004 F-150 FX4

2004 Ford Expedition

1999 Suburban 1500

2004 Suburban 2500

2007 Passat 4Motion

And my experience is that longer wheelbase is better than shorter.  More weight is better than less weight.  AWD systems are better than 4WD systems for 99% of situations till it reaches THAT POINT when true 4WD is better.  So the Wrangler legit felt like it wanted to kill me, the Germans were all supremely capable and make anyone feel like a hero behind the controls, the Suburbans required a defter hand at the wheel but are capable of pushing through snow that's well over the bumper.

Add in the fact that some dingleberry is likely to plow into you because they got their Altima rolling on bald tires and are now 100% out of control, I like the protection of the 'burb as well.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
12/2/22 1:54 p.m.

I still miss the old 'Zuk. Something about those 99-05 Grand Vitara's was amazing. 

1SlowVW
1SlowVW Dork
12/2/22 6:55 p.m.
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) said:
1SlowVW said:

In reply to crankwalk (Forum Supporter) :

I didn't see any mention of roads in the title question. 
Tell me a better way to get through a couple hundred miles of snow covered land? 


If we are going to go there, this how we do it here in Alaska. Thousand miles, no fossil fuels. Runs on chum salmon and belly rubs. Preaching to the choir!

I'm not nearly far enough north for either , most winters we only get a 3-5 feet of snow. But I know there's still quite a dog teams in Labrador and I imagine up in the territory's it's the same.

For me though I'd take the sled over the dogs. I know a dog team can go all day but I think it's almost as much of a job driving as it is for the dogs pulling. 

 

As for the people here who see a couple inches of snow once or twice a winter deliberating over what the best option is. I'll reserve my comments. Same people that tell me I need a 30hp snowblower.

 

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