New York just passed a Bill allowing speed cameras in work zones.
I respect the speed limit in them, but on a weekend when work shuts down? I do what everyone else near me is doing and play the odds. With this new twist, will I be getting a bill from the State along with everyone driving around me?
2 work zone tickets and you lose your license.
Chicago has been cranking down the speed camera thresholds and (I assume) cranking up the profits. 5 over now gets you a ticket.
State needs money. I'm just surprised it took this long. I'm sure they're hoping to slip it in unnoticed when people are focused on other things. Do you know if it requires appropriate signage? I wonder if people will start doing what I saw in France a few years ago - when there was a speed camera on the highway, everyone maintained speed but moved in really tight nose to tail so the cameras couldn't see the plates, then accordioned out once they passed the camera.
San Diego got shut down for red light cameras a decade ago-ish. I cannot remember why.
Then again, two San Diego strip clubs...er gentleman clubs won covid shut downs vs the state last year. Who knows.
No signage, it just shows up in the mail to the registered owner. Only way to beat it (I think) is see the camera's picture and prove you were not driving.
Can this be far behind?
914Driver said:New York just passed a Bill allowing speed cameras in work zones.
I respect the speed limit in them, but on a weekend when work shuts down? I do what everyone else near me is doing and play the odds. With this new twist, will I be getting a bill from the State along with everyone driving around me?
2 work zone tickets and you lose your license.
Work zones are, by their nature, more hazardous to drive through than normal roads. Holes, temporary patches, diverted traffic flow, heavy equipment parked by the side of the road...they should have lower limits. And the actual hours when workers are present can be fluid, so it's easier to just run the cameras all the time instead of trying to somehow match them to work zone occupancy.
914Driver said:No signage, it just shows up in the mail to the registered owner. Only way to beat it (I think) is see the camera's picture and prove you were not driving.
That doesn't get you out of a camera ticket in New York. The ticket goes to the vehicle, not the motorist.
Enough flaggers killed out here to justify them for sure. But it should be equally illegal to leave the work zone signage up when no work is being done.
I’ve seen cones and work zones pop up and go away with no work done, and no workers present.
Granted I’m going the speed limit and don’t have time to examine what exactly happened. And I attribute that to the skill and expertise of the folks doing the work
Going 55 in a 70 when everyone is doing 80 isn’t a great thing either.
Zero tolerance isn’t a great policy, it also means zero understanding.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Good point Keith.
About six weeks ago, I was driving in the fast lane on a remote freeway (by California standards) behind one of these Mitsubishi cargo trucks early in the morning in a construction zone.
The road had a temporary dog leg to the right to make room for stored equipment and there were maybe six of those big yellow drums filled with water placed in front of where the wall of K-Rails started.
The truck driver noticed the dog leg way too late and his efforts to slow and turn right just took him down to impacting at about 40 mph and having about 18" of the left of his truck overlapping the yellow drums.
I was far enough behind that I didn't have to work too hard to avoid rear ending him so I could really take in the spectacular view of physics in motion...geyser of water shooting up, truck bouncing back and forth between left wheels and right wheels. He came to rest in the middle of the freeway, I stopped ~50' behind him, noted that the freeway was clear behind us for the half mile I could see (5:15 AM) and prepared to offer assistance.
After about 10 seconds, he popped out of his truck and took off running towards the off ramp. I didn't have flares (or a Help Wanted sign 
) so I just drove around the wreck and continued on my way. In hindsight, I probably should have called it in but the truck was white and at a 30 degree angle across two lanes so no remotely competent person could possibly miss it.
I know, I know, I probably should have done more...in keeping with the house rules, I'll just leave it at "let no good deed go unpunished" is increasingly becoming a truism.
bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) said:Enough flaggers killed out here to justify them for sure. But it should be equally illegal to leave the work zone signage up when no work is being done.
I understand your sentiment, but DOT regs trump all in a work zone.
NOT gonna happen.
It's not the worker's fault. They are required to leave them up and maintain them by law.
And no way the DOT is gonna come up with some convoluted fluid flexible rule that allows for taking them down during off hours just because somebody doesn't like driving slow. Too hard for them to enforce. They are in the business of safety, not convenience. Like OSHA.
Don't forget that mechanics servicing the equipment can be out there when you don't see anything else going on. Or maybe someone's taking the opportunity to do some testing of the density. It's really hard to anticipate when a site is occupied.
As someone who has done work in construction zones (electrician), I can tell you that not all trades work at the same time. Sometimes I have been called out to finish work that has taken longer than expected. Sometimes I have to work when the other trades aren't there because pulling cable and erecting light poles aren't easily done with large construction equipment in the way.
And sometimes our underground gets accidentally dug up, and we have to fix it ASAP. This may be on a weekend, a holiday, or at 0 Dark:30.
It makes sense to just do the speed limit. What are you going to save? 10 minutes? Or maybe my life.
I've been nearly creamed by motorists more times than I could possibly count surveying roadsides. I have no sympathies for anyone rightfully ticketed due to speeding in a work zone. None.
I sure am glad SC declared all photo tickets unconstitutional. If they want their pound of flesh, the cop that witnessed your transgression and wrote the ticket has to be in court with you.
Cooter said:It makes sense to just do the speed limit. What are you going to save? 10 minutes? Or maybe my life.
Say for instance a work zone is 10 miles long and the posted limit is 55mph. If you drive at that speed it will take about 11 minutes to pass through it. If you ignore the posted limit and drive at 70mph it will take about 8 1/2 minutes, so you're only saving 2 1/2 minutes.
In reply to stuart in mn :
2.5 minutes and "up to a $10,000 fine." At least we know what we're worth.
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:914Driver said:No signage, it just shows up in the mail to the registered owner. Only way to beat it (I think) is see the camera's picture and prove you were not driving.
That doesn't get you out of a camera ticket in New York. The ticket goes to the vehicle, not the motorist.
So if I sell the car the points come off my license?
You'll get no complaints from me about limits in legitimate work zones, but NY has a habit of designating enormous stretches as such, and leaving them like that for months on end. While small sections are under actual work, the rest (miles and miles of it) are either complete or not yet touched, containing no workers or equipment. The potential for unreasonable exploitation of the letter of the law, while doing nothing to serve the stated intent, is high.
This is a tough one. A stretch of a local bypass has a stretch of work area where speed limit is 40. You will get your doors blown off if you are not doing 60. I know it would be a stretch but I think having an off work hours speed limit when no one is working might help.
My county just installed speed cameras in many of the school zones. School is 180 days a year, but the cameras generate tickets 24/7/365. I pass one daily at the entrance to my neighborhood... It's only a matter of time till I get a notice.
In reply to 914Driver :
There are no points for a camera, only a fine. To get points an officer has to write it to you personally.
Ahhh.....
I looked at the actual text of the law. Here are a couple of relevant bits:
Implementation:
Such demonstration program shall empower the commissioner
17 to install photo speed violation monitoring systems within no more than
18 twenty highway construction or maintenance work areas located on cont-
19 rolled-access highways and to operate such systems within such work
20 areas (iii) when highway construction or maintenance work is occurring
21 and a work area speed limit is in effect as provided in paragraph two of
22 subdivision (d) or subdivision (f) of section eleven hundred eighty of
23 this article or (iv) when highway construction or maintenance work is
24 occurring and other speed limits are in effect as provided in subdivi-
25 sion (b) or (g) or paragraph one of subdivision (d) of section eleven
26 hundred eighty of this article. The commissioner, in consultation with
27 the superintendent of the division of state police, shall determine the
28 location of the highway construction or maintenance work areas located
29 on a controlled-access highway in which to install and operate photo
30 speed violation monitoring systems. In selecting a highway construction
31 or maintenance work area in which to install and operate a photo speed
32 violation monitoring system, the commissioner shall consider criteria
33 including, but not limited to, the speed data, crash history, and road-
34 way geometry applicable to such highway construction or maintenance work
35 area. A photo speed violation monitoring system shall not be installed
36 or operated on a controlled-access highway exit ramp.
Penalties:
An owner liable for a violation of subdivision (b), (d), (f) or
7 (g) of section eleven hundred eighty of this article pursuant to a
8 demonstration program established pursuant to this section shall be
9 liable for monetary penalties not to exceed fifty dollars for a first
10 violation, seventy-five dollars for a second violation both of which
11 were committed within a period of eighteen months, and one hundred
12 dollars for a third or subsequent violation all of which were committed
13 within a period of eighteen months; provided, however, that an addi-
14 tional penalty not in excess of twenty-five dollars for each violation
15 may be imposed for the failure to respond to a notice of liability with-
16 in the prescribed time period.
17 (f) An imposition of liability under the demonstration program estab-
18 lished pursuant to this section shall not be deemed a conviction as an
19 operator and shall not be made part of the operating record of the
20 person upon whom such liability is imposed nor shall it be used for
21 insurance purposes in the provision of motor vehicle insurance coverage.
So it's a demonstration program (for now), and the penalties are solely monetary, and do not appear to escalate with speed; it's simply a fixed penalty based only on prior history.
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