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914Driver
914Driver HalfDork
7/16/08 7:24 a.m.

I saw this window banner in the rear window of a Ford Ranger, right next to a Rebel flag. Isn't a Ranger a Mazda?

Dan

Xceler8x
Xceler8x GRM+ Memberand Reader
7/16/08 7:30 a.m.

Nah. It was the other way around for years..may still be.

The Ford Ranger was the model the Mazda B2200 was based on.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn Dork
7/16/08 7:48 a.m.

The Mazda and Ranger come off the same production line at the Ford assembly plant in St. Paul, MN.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua Dork
7/16/08 8:30 a.m.

For years they each rebadged the others model. So there was a ford that was truly a mazda and a mazda that was truly a ford. Not sure about now.

jwdmotorsports
jwdmotorsports New Reader
7/16/08 8:32 a.m.

What a lot of people like that don't know is that most Japanese etc cars are made in the US.

So, which is better, buying a Honda made in the US or a Ford made in Mexico?

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
7/16/08 8:34 a.m.

Ironically...

That window sticker can probably be found in abundance in WalMart parking lots accross "uhmurrica"

Clem

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
7/16/08 8:36 a.m.

jwd, my wife the math whiz has crunched those numbers, and she's pretty sure buying a US-made Honda helps more than a foreign made car with a domestic plate.

Don't forget the extra layer, either -- the web of who owns who. Our 99 Subaru was made in Indiana by a Japanese company that was (at the time) largely owned by GM. I figure that makes it mostly American.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
7/16/08 8:39 a.m.
jwdmotorsports wrote: What a lot of people like that don't know is that most Japanese etc cars are made in the US. So, which is better, buying a Honda made in the US or a Ford made in Mexico?

To be fair...all profit from those cars goes back home to Japan. When the Japanese automakers started building cars in the US 20 some years back...they just rounded up their suppliers and had them set up camp in the US to supply the new assembly plants here.

I work for a Japanese-owned company that makes parts for Japanese cars built in the US. I think it's great they're built in the US...but the folks who cry fowl do have a valid argument.

All in all...I don't buy new cars, so I don't contribute to that market so much...

Clem

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
7/16/08 8:42 a.m.
Tim Baxter wrote: jwd, my wife the math whiz has crunched those numbers, and she's pretty sure buying a US-made Honda helps more than a foreign made car with a domestic plate. Don't forget the extra layer, either -- the web of who owns who. Our 99 Subaru was made in Indiana by a Japanese company that was (at the time) largely owned by GM. I figure that makes it mostly American.

And the brake pelad and/or parking brake was very likely made right here in MO, with mostly american steel, a couple of japanese components, american coatings, maybe mexican or local injection moldings.

It certainly is "better."

I'm really just providing info...not trying to make a statement either way, really.

Clem

Osterkraut
Osterkraut Reader
7/16/08 8:48 a.m.
Tim Baxter wrote: jwd, my wife the math whiz has crunched those numbers, and she's pretty sure buying a US-made Honda helps more than a foreign made car with a domestic plate. Don't forget the extra layer, either -- the web of who owns who. Our 99 Subaru was made in Indiana by a Japanese company that was (at the time) largely owned by GM. I figure that makes it mostly American.

I thought GM owned at most 20% of Subie?

16vCorey
16vCorey Dork
7/16/08 8:52 a.m.

The Ranger was never a Mazda. The Ford Courier was a Mazda B series, but the '93 and newer Mazda B series (B2300, B2500, B3000, B4000) were all Ford Rangers, although the '01 and newer trucks (both Fords and Mazdas) were available with the Mazda/Ford DOHC 2.3l, which I think is mostly a Mazda design, but by the year 2000 the lines get a bit blurry.

Wowak
Wowak Dork
7/16/08 8:54 a.m.
914Driver wrote: Isn't a Ranger a Mazda?

Some boys in St. Paul MN would be awful mad at you for this incorrect assumption.

Chris_V
Chris_V SuperDork
7/16/08 9:08 a.m.
ClemSparks wrote: To be fair...all profit from those cars goes back home to Japan.

Actually a lot of the "profit" goes into spending to increase the infrastructure in the US, building more plants or upgrading what's here.

Just like for a number of years, the "profits" from Ford and GM went into buying foreign manufacturers, so that "profit" money flowed out of country. For example, 2.9 billion dollars of Ford "profit" went straight to BMW in exchange for Land Rover. They just got a bit of that back, but you couldn't say that that "profit" actually was spent in, or benefitted America as a nation at all.

jrw1621
jrw1621 New Reader
7/16/08 9:17 a.m.

Should I buy the Mazda 6 sedan which is assembled in Flat Rock Michigan on the same grounds as the Ford Mustang or should I buy the Ford Fusion which is assembled in Mexico?

When this argument used to come up I always said that your right, I should have bought a PT Cruiser. Great styling of retro-American truck, what could be better except for the German ownership and the Mexican assembly?

jwdmotorsports
jwdmotorsports New Reader
7/16/08 9:21 a.m.
Chris_V wrote:
ClemSparks wrote: To be fair...all profit from those cars goes back home to Japan.
Actually a lot of the "profit" goes into spending to increase the infrastructure in the US, building more plants or upgrading what's here.

Money also goes to the people employed by the auto manufacturer itself as well as all the companies that supply the auto manufacturer.

There are thousands and thousands of American jobs because the Japanese are building cars in the US.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
7/16/08 9:26 a.m.

I agree...

certainly folks have jobs because the cars are built here...can't argue with that (and I'm really glad those plants are typically non-union...but that's a whole 'nother ball of wax)

And yes...it's hard to say exactly where "profit" goes. I'm just saying there's more to it than simply "made in america." I'm not trying to side up with either side in the "Foreign vs. Domestic" debate.

The closest I get to that debate is voting with my dollars by not buying new (actually...that's not voting at all, huh?).

Clem

jwdmotorsports
jwdmotorsports Reader
7/16/08 9:36 a.m.
ClemSparks wrote: The closest I get to that debate is voting with my dollars by not buying new (actually...that's not voting at all, huh?).

I work in the auto industry and I still don't buy new cars so....

However, when I buy a DD it is a Japanese car because I feel they are more reliable.

Now, my wife's car was bought new (by her parents) and it is a true Japanese car (built in Japan).

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
7/16/08 10:30 a.m.

all this real american talk reminds me of

Chris_V
Chris_V SuperDork
7/16/08 10:41 a.m.
jwdmotorsports wrote:
Chris_V wrote:
ClemSparks wrote: To be fair...all profit from those cars goes back home to Japan.
Actually a lot of the "profit" goes into spending to increase the infrastructure in the US, building more plants or upgrading what's here.
Money also goes to the people employed by the auto manufacturer itself as well as all the companies that supply the auto manufacturer. There are thousands and thousands of American jobs because the Japanese are building cars in the US.

I think those are counted under operating costs instead of profits.

MitchellC
MitchellC New Reader
7/16/08 11:46 a.m.
ClemSparks wrote: To be fair...all profit from those cars goes back home to Japan.

And since none of the American automakers are making a profit, it's a lose-lose situation. [/splitting hairs]

Nashco
Nashco Dork
7/16/08 12:29 p.m.

As an auto engineer, I feel it's my obligation to point out that there's more to the "built in the US is good enough for me" than just blue collar workers. Don't forget there's as many engineers (sometimes more) designing and testing the product as there are blue collar line workers building it when comparing foreign owned, domestically built versus domestically owned, foreign built. If you were trying to remain competitive as a company in the market place and were forced to choose one or the other, which would you rather keep in the country, blue collar work or white collar work? My highly biased opinion says I don't mind letting Canadians and Mexicans build stuff to remain competitive compared to building it here in the US but designing it in Japan or India or whatever.

With that said, I think consumers should buy what they want. If somebody is a die-hard patriot, then they should buy with that as the top priority. If that isn't a big deal to another person, then so be it, the market will adjust to provide people with what people want. Enough people want American made bikes that a significant portion of Harley-Davidson, Buell, and Victory sales are made solely because they're American bikes. That is a sales angle, just like having a faster 0-60 or fancy new headlight, and build/design locations do account for those types of things. Personally, I consider myself middle-of-the-road. I like American cars, but I can appreciate a good foreign car as well. I've had great experiences with my Hondas (bikes and cars) and Subarus, they're very well designed although a little bit boring. The only brand new vehicle I've bought is the Saabaru, which was a mutt...Swedish brand, American owned, mostly Japanese designed, Japanese built. It was built while GM still had a fair stake in FHI, a marriage that didn't do much good for either company but I really appreciated it as a consumer. Meanwhile, it is fun to say that a Northstar Fiero is not only cool, but all American as well.

I bet the "American" window banner was made in China!

Bryce

jwdmotorsports
jwdmotorsports Reader
7/16/08 12:57 p.m.

Also as an automotive engineer I know that not all Japanese cars are designed in Japan.

Some (granted not all) are designed and build in the US.

Nashco
Nashco Dork
7/16/08 1:30 p.m.
jwdmotorsports wrote: Also as an automotive engineer I know that not all Japanese cars are designed in Japan. Some (granted not all) are designed and build in the US.

Yup, this is true as well, sometimes foreign owned companies have US design centers. Not many relatively, but just enough to further muddy the waters.

Bryce

jwdmotorsports
jwdmotorsports Reader
7/16/08 1:48 p.m.
Nashco wrote:
jwdmotorsports wrote: Also as an automotive engineer I know that not all Japanese cars are designed in Japan. Some (granted not all) are designed and build in the US.
Yup, this is true as well, sometimes foreign owned companies have US design centers. Not many relatively, but just enough to further muddy the waters. Bryce

I take it you work for an "American" () auto manufacturer.

And yes, I work for a Japanese auto manufacturer.

John Brown
John Brown GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/16/08 1:49 p.m.

I couldn't love GRM the magazine or the website more, and believe me, I don't like to be the P.C police or anything or the guy who has a problem with everything thing, but I do have a problem with this...

I find it a bit offensive that you use terms like “engineer” etc etc... for your little descriptions or whatever in the avatars. I myself do not have an engineer, nor am I an engineering teacher or engineerish, but I feel sensitivity for people with engineering as I am a student taking engineering classes, and my Girlfriend is pursuing her masters in the field.

These terms although I'm pretty sure are not even real words, are obviously meant to resemble the words used to describe people with morality-legality impairments, and it appears that they are used on these boards in a joking sense which, as I view it, makes light of people who are afflicted with engineered disabilities.

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