About 8 months ago I took this job as fully remote. I'm not sure it's for me. But it pays well and keeps my family here.
About 8 months ago I took this job as fully remote. I'm not sure it's for me. But it pays well and keeps my family here.
Heard a statistic this morning.
55% of job seekers are looking for something remote. Only 10% of job offerings have remote options.
That's a big discrepancy.
In reply to I haven’t owned an SVX in a really long time :
That's not surprising. I remember one of our office managers making the comment that "I wish I could work from home, so I could like, do the laundry and clean up the house during the day." I tried to explain to her, working from home doesn't mean being at home with the computer on. It means WORKING from home.
In other words, I think a lot of people who have never worked from home have unrealistic expectations about working from home.
And I would prefer our previous setup honestly. Work from home 2-3 days per week, go into the office the other days.
z31maniac said:In reply to I haven’t owned an SVX in a really long time :
That's not surprising. I remember one of our office managers making the comment that "I wish I could work from home, so I could like, do the laundry and clean up the house during the day." I tried to explain to her, working from home doesn't mean being at home with the computer on. It means WORKING from home.
In other words, I think a lot of people who have never worked from home have unrealistic expectations about working from home.
And I would prefer our previous setup honestly. Work from home 2-3 days per week, go into the office the other days.
Cleaning the house does not happen at all, but laundry does. Not folding it or putting it away, but it definitely gets loaded, washed, moved, and dried during the day. Takes about 10 minutes throughout the day, whenever I'm able to, to do 2-3 loads. Incredible how much time it saves me.
I'm curious how that "only 10% of jobs are offering remote" was calculated. I've seen a bunch that are hybrid/remote optional, but not labled that way. I'd put the number closer to 25%. EDIT: Now that I think of it though, I would expect that 50% of jobs are such that they cannot be remote (McDonalds worker, WalMart, construction, hospitals, etc.)
In reply to z31maniac :
For me the bigger thing would be the time saved from the commute would give me more time to do stuff plus lunch break I could do a quick 30 minute ride or a bit of work round the house and quickly eat something. That would be the big advantage to me. Also it isn't like most people don't take the occasional 10 minute break to chat to coworkers and stuff. That can be used to throw laundry in the washer or dryer but like mtn said I wouldn't fold it.
But honestly I don't think I could do full time work from home (having done it some during all this), a hybrid setup would be great. I really like my current job but if I ever did leave I would for sure be looking for a hybrid setup.
In reply to mtn :
It was an NPR report interviewing a national level job posting website.
I think their numbers were based in fact, not feeling.
In reply to z31maniac :
It's shocking to me how many people measure their work value by the hour, and how many companies seem to care about exactly what they are doing every minute, instead of what they are producing. Leads to people spending the day sitting at their desk playing solitaire or Farmville.
The company I work for doesn't give a crap how many hours I work, because my job isn't being there to raise my hand when they call attendance. My job is getting jobs done. Safely, on time, on budget, with satisfied customers who want to do more business with us. I deliver. They pay me.
My company is fully aware that I am not on site nearly 30% of the time. Often doing my own thing. If I feel like staying home and cleaning the house, I do it. I still get the job done. I deliver. They pay me.
I run about $10 million worth of work a year. Alone. By myself. My company never asks me where I am. My employees and subcontractors know exactly what I expect from them whether or not I am there. I am not a baby sitter. And I don't ask how many hours they work. They get the job done. They deliver. We pay them.
Our local office has 4 staff members. I am in the office a couple times a week. In 7 years I don't think I've ever seen all 4 people in that office. Ever. The Admin is out of the office part of almost every day doing personal stuff. They do their job. They deliver. We pay them.
Its not all party. There are times when I put in many, many more hours in a week than most hourly employees. It's part of what it takes to deliver sometimes.
It's really simple when you don't give a crap about how many hours you work and just focus on producing the work.
z31maniac said:In reply to I haven’t owned an SVX in a really long time :
That's not surprising. I remember one of our office managers making the comment that "I wish I could work from home, so I could like, do the laundry and clean up the house during the day." I tried to explain to her, working from home doesn't mean being at home with the computer on. It means WORKING from home.
In other words, I think a lot of people who have never worked from home have unrealistic expectations about working from home.
And I would prefer our previous setup honestly. Work from home 2-3 days per week, go into the office the other days.
But what job requires to be actively working at your desk for 8 hours constantly?
Smokers are given 15 min multiple times a day for a smoke break, so it would be ok to think that those 15 min breaks can be used for various things around the house, too. Laundry, vacuum part of a room, dishes, etc. Also one needs to add in the commute time given back- 10-60 min depending. At a bare minimum, the commute time is at least in your hands to do whatever you want. So a good WFH set up should be capable of delivering a far more open weekend/evening than without.
Of course, you are going to be asked to work outside of hours, sometimes- just like at the office. And your schedule will certainly be surrounded and dictated by meetings. But even production line workers get breaks. And breaks allow you to complete simple home tasks.
I haven’t owned an SVX in a really long time said:In reply to mtn :
It was an NPR report ... I think their numbers were based in fact, not feeling.
NPR report not based in feeling 
I haven’t owned an SVX in a really long time said:In reply to mtn :
It was an NPR report interviewing a national level job posting website.
I think their numbers were based in fact, not feeling.
Right, but are the listings accurate? For instance, there is an opening on my team that states "Orlando or Chicago". The truth is, we would take anyone who can make it to the Orlando or Chicago office 2-3 times a quarter. So it isn't fully remote - we're not paying the travel to Orlando or Chicago - and therefore HR won't let us list it as remote - but in reality, it is nearly fully remote.
I've also applied to a job recently that is listed as 100% in the office, but I have talked to numerous employees there who say that in reality, it is in the office for the first month for onboarding, then in the office during the busy times. Other than that, make an appearance a few times a month and you're good.
EDIT: And I don't expect NPR or really anyone to track that down. You wouldn't really know unless you got an interview. But if it is happening here, it has to be happening elsewhere.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:I haven’t owned an SVX in a really long time said:In reply to mtn :
It was an NPR report ... I think their numbers were based in fact, not feeling.
NPR report not based in feeling
Nice edit...
NPR is touchy-feely, but they generally don't lie, and the national level job posting website they were interviewing was just quoting statistics and facts from their site.
I feel like you guys are taking my comment WAY TOO literally. Here I am posting during hours because I'm taking a break. No one expects you to be in front of your computer non-stop. That wasn't my point. The particular person of which I'm speaking, who was eventually fired, assumed "working from home" meant that we just at home, not working...........as if not getting your stuff done would fly with your managers.
It's very common to get up and run to the store, take care of errands, go get a Red Bull/Coffee/Snack from the convenience store, go take the dogs for a walk when it's nice out, etc. My manager doesn't care when/how I get my work done, as long as it's quality and done when it needs to be. I'm techincally an hourly employee, but we are really treated more like salary, not in that we have to work a bunch of OT (we don't), but because we aren't micromanaged.
The only real caveat is to be available for meetings you need to be in (which is no different than being in the office) and generally be available during "normal" business hours for your time zone. Doc appt, home repair guy, lawn care, etc, whatever.
I really think the biggest hurdle of working from home is how easily it is to get distracted. As I sit in my home office, if I look to the left I see my big triple monitor sim racing rig, about 5 guitars, and there is a PS4 in the living room. And that doesn't even include going down the rabbit hole of looking cars, car forums, etc.
In reply to z31maniac :
The thing is that you used an example of what you can't do of something that you can do, pretty easily working from home. It's not all that hard to get everything done and clean the house, do the laundry, dishes, etc. Not all at once, of course. But it's doable. When you brought that up, it seemed like it was a literal sit at your desk 8 hours.
All of my teams roles are posted with a location attached but all can be remote. Silly hr thing.
Ive been working from home since the pandemic began and did a good amount before due to injury.
Get your work done and be available. For us, its not considered OK to leave and run errands, but if I take my laptop to the treadclimber with me in case someone calls, I can get a workout in. I do stuff around the house, but generally drop it to engage work tasks needing response. I get tasks completed to my supervisors satisfaction.
People talking about locality pay, my employer has this solution: https://www.federalpay.org/gs/locality
So for us, there is telework vs full remote. (this is after we "phase back into the office" )
We arent elgible for full remote yet. kinda keeping an eye on it as it might be nice for finding good schools for the kids in an affordable area.
Apexcarver said:
People talking about locality pay, my employer has this solution: https://www.federalpay.org/gs/locality
My company effectively does the same. A base rate and then a locality adjustment on top.
I've noticed a big debate (on reddit mostly) about the future of remote work.
My wife's company has "activity tracking" that monitors her activity (i assume button clicks and mouse movement). She swears that the company is watching her, but I'm not so sure. That's a lot of data to sort through. I'd think the only time they'd look at it is if she suddenly started claiming she was working but getting nothing done. In that scenario, however, her boss would be the first to notice because her work is very intensive, and she has very little downtime. Her position is full-remote, and will likely always be so, and she makes good money for a part-time job at $30/hr.
My company, on the other hand, has no such software or monitoring. My boss more or less determines how productive we are by seeing the backlog of work. Thing is, pretty much every other group has a backlog too, and in a lot of cases we're waiting on them. Very rarely does any department complain about another, because of pot and kettle.
Alternatively, however, my company really would like everyone back in the office. Which doesn't bother me much because my office is 5 mins away from my house.
Why? Because utility companies heavily manage their workforce (which are often union) and so everyone has a regional office for which they report every morning. Even though my job doesn't need this type of management, the union positions (most everyone who talks to a customer, or touches pipe) would cry "UNFAIR" if us non-union folks started working remotely. Likewise, so would their bosses, who need that face-to-face communication in order to keep the machine moving.
There has however been talk of loosening up on "hybrid" work arrangements, mostly because it was already happening, and often preferred by management prior to the pandemic. We have quite a few positions that might have a home office, but spend a lot of time in another area, sometimes working on the opposite end of the state for a week. These types of situations benefit the company, and planning our office, IT, and management structure around more people doing it might actually save money as well as make working in other areas easier (because we're already used to jumping between home, office, and office on the other side of the state.)
One of the more frustrating things I've been hearing is how a lot of job seekers think every job that uses a computer should be remote. My company has explained that there are a lot of reasons for wanting us back in the office, even if on a part-time basis.
I think folks have better start wrapping their head around SVREX's quote from NPR that of jobs looking to hire, only 10% are remote.
Does anyone else think there a lot of "on site" jobs will start needing to pay higher wages in order to attract job seekers? Or instead, will on-site jobs just be filled with people who have been working crappy outdoor jobs, or even remote workers wanting to do something more social?
pheller said:Does anyone else think there a lot of "on site" jobs will start needing to pay higher wages in order to attract job seekers? Or instead, will on-site jobs just be filled with people who have been working crappy outdoor jobs, or even remote workers wanting to do something more social?
No. I think there are enough people that either like going into the office or are indifferent about it that it will not drastically change the pay.
mtn said:pheller said:Does anyone else think there a lot of "on site" jobs will start needing to pay higher wages in order to attract job seekers? Or instead, will on-site jobs just be filled with people who have been working crappy outdoor jobs, or even remote workers wanting to do something more social?
No. I think there are enough people that either like going into the office or are indifferent about it that it will not drastically change the pay.
Agreed, I don't think it will have any noticeable impact.
I'm saving a chunk of change by not needing to have a car, insurance, fuel. Granted I only had to drive about 40 miles per week for work, office was close and only went in 3 days per week. The better half works from home to, so we just share a car until I decide what fun car I want next year.
And now instead of needing to get up take a shower, get dressed, grab my computer off the dock, etc. I can get up, put some PJ pants on and walk to the other side of the house.
pheller said:Does anyone else think there a lot of "on site" jobs will start needing to pay higher wages in order to attract job seekers? Or instead, will on-site jobs just be filled with people who have been working crappy outdoor jobs, or even remote workers wanting to do something more social?
No, I don't think so.
I think WFH is essentially a fad caused by the pandemic which will largely go away.
Workers still have health concerns, and many of the benefits that in part enabled WFH have not completely dried up. The pandemic is not over. So, they are not ready to go back to work. The 50% of job seekers who want WFH have enjoyed the opportunity created by the pandemic to WFH, and are hoping for it to continue. But only 10% of jobs will make it work.
Additionally, there is a great deal of resentment among essential workers who have not had the opportunity to WFH. We are exhausted from the additional work load, and not happy about carrying everyone else on our backs. Many will now accelerate their retirements, etc, which will open up jobs that CANNOT be done from home.
Eventually, people will need money, and employers won't need to enable WFH. It will largely go back to normal. (Except for a few industries that have learned to function better with WFH- the 10%)
My $0.02
If your job is misery and you can improve your income right now, you should do so.. but I realize that's easier to say than to do.
I've been fortunate to work straight through the pandemic. My first visit to my "office" in Downtown Atlanta since 3/20 was for the company Christmas party last Saturday. Other than that I've been 100% WFH and I've never worked more.
In my experience, WFH is great and WFH sucks at the same time. I love not having an hour+ commute every morning and evening but the loss of social interaction is unhealthy. I do visit multiple construction sites every week. If you can mix in some time with others, it makes it much less mentally punishing.
In reply to SV EX :
I don't think this is a fad. My company has put in a hybrid work model where it very much depends on what you have to do, so WFH is going to be a long term thing for us. Given that it's going to save $1B, yea. Once they saw the WFH productivity, our management realized that the planned multi billion overhaul of the engineering campus was not needed.
It may not encompass everyone, everywhere. But I don't think it's going to go away.
Especially when you compare it to the hot desk, open concept model that they were planning for us- that very much looked looked like torture.
OHSCrifle said:In my experience, WFH is great and WFH sucks at the same time. I love not having an hour+ commute every morning and evening but the loss of social interaction is unhealthy. I do visit multiple construction sites every week. If you can mix in some time with others, it makes it much less mentally punishing.
I feel you. There are days on days that I don't leave the house. Just tied to my computer chugging away.
I have come to realize I would like a hybrid work environment. The opportunity to go into an office a couple days a week for interaction and meetings combined with some work from home days should I need to cover a late start for the kids or have a water heater instsslled or just spend a day chugging on work to clear my backlog. But this 100% work from home is just not for me. It's not good for my mental health.
alfadriver said:In reply to SV ex:
Especially when you compare it to the hot desk, open concept model that they were planning for us- that very much looked looked like torture.
berkeley that open concept hot desk E36 M3. My last job had an office with proper door abs full length walls. What a novel concept.
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