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carguy123
carguy123 SuperDork
10/15/11 10:22 a.m.

A little follow up. In so many cases THEY have already decided what they are going to do. You are simply reacting but even if you react quickly you are still way behind in the game.

THEY have planned it out and know the direction THEY want to go. They have allotted for your probable reactions and with 2 you are outmatched for critical moments.

Many of the incidents, mine included, begin with what is an apparent simple incident such as these women, but quickly change once they are in position such as when they boxed him in.

In the heat of the moment there is no right vs. wrong, man vs. women, ex-con vs. simpleton. It is simply survival.

The bottom line is that you don't know what the other party is planning. Is this a simple instance of someone getting mad and after a little hollering things will quieten down or are there nefarious plans in place? You won't know until it's too late.

If you get into any type of fight as an adult and you aren't just horsing around with friends, the potential for serious harm with a life time of consequences or even death is a real possibility. This ain't the school yard kiddies.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
10/15/11 10:48 a.m.

I think the media are bigger scumbags then lawyers these days.

Don49
Don49 Reader
10/15/11 11:10 a.m.

If you attempt to physically assault me, you are putting yourself at great risk. I will defend myself vigorously and violently using any means necessary to protect myself. As far as I am concerned this is basic survival instinct at work. Once those females started the assault, all bets are off.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/15/11 12:04 p.m.

Ok, I get the fact that the drunk females assulted him first, and that he has every right to defend himself.

But when he went to the back room to get a metal pipe, that quickly changed from defense to offense, aka assult. There comes a point where you can't call it self defense.

Some of your guy's attidudes toward this is kind of alarming. What IF he went to the back room to get a gun he had in his belongings and shot them both? Would that be ok? If you get punched in the face, and then the attackers are then somewhat held up, is it ok for you to beat them sesless?

DoctorBlade
DoctorBlade Dork
10/15/11 12:21 p.m.

Being an ex-con certainly isn't going to help his case either.

Karl La Follette
Karl La Follette Dork
10/15/11 12:31 p.m.

That was awesome , you don't get to see a good beat down anymore . Thanks for posting . Macdonalds obviously need to make those metal rod thicker it looks like they bend when multiple thrashs are applied . I also would like to commend Macdonalds on their employee cleanliness it looks like he had his plastic gloves on

Don49
Don49 Reader
10/15/11 12:46 p.m.

It becomes assault when the attacker has stopped their assault and or retreated. I don't think I saw that in this case. If you assault me, I will defend myself until you stop or are no longer capable of harming me. Up until then, it's no holds barred and no apologies. Your bad for starting it!

wbjones
wbjones SuperDork
10/15/11 12:50 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: What IF he went to the back room to get a gun he had in his belongings and shot them both?

sure ... odds are they would never assault anyone again... be doing the world a favor

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/15/11 1:16 p.m.
Don49 wrote: It becomes assault when the attacker has stopped their assault and or retreated. I don't think I saw that in this case. If you assault me, I will defend myself until you stop or are no longer capable of harming me. Up until then, it's no holds barred and no apologies. Your bad for starting it!

So you will beat down until a cracked skull and broken bones?

What's the threshold where you can justify beating someone to almost death? A shove? Punch in the face?

Again, the one person left, which is when the threat subduded enough, got a pipe, and then beat them. That, apparently, is ok.

That's depressing.

Grizz
Grizz HalfDork
10/15/11 1:41 p.m.
Racer1ab wrote: Video won't load here at work, but I have a hard time believing an ex-con can't control two drunk chicks without resorting to crushing skulls.

Firstly, them being women is irrelevant. Secondly, why is it okay for me to beat the E36 M3 out of a 140 pound man trying to kick my ass, but not okay for me to do the same with two, much less one, 140 pound women trying to do exactly the same? I've seen women put guys in the hospital because the man didn't want to hit them, I'm not going to end up with a knife in my gut because the person who wants to put it there has a vagina.

alfadriver wrote: So you will beat down until a cracked skull and broken bones? What's the threshold where you can justify beating someone to almost death? A shove? Punch in the face? Again, the one person left, which is when the threat subduded enough, got a pipe, and then beat them. That, apparently, is ok. That's depressing.

He didn't leave, he ran to the back with the women CHASING him, they were right behind him when he turned around with the pipe in his hands and didn't stop coming at him until he started swinging.

carguy123
carguy123 SuperDork
10/15/11 1:48 p.m.
So you will beat down until a cracked skull and broken bones? What's the threshold where you can justify beating someone to almost death? A shove? Punch in the face? Again, the one person left, which is when the threat subduded enough, got a pipe, and then beat them. That, apparently, is ok. That's depressing.

Yes, you are right. Cracked and broken bones in the other guy are good. The alternative is broken or cracked bones for you. Living in a wheelchair can completely ruin your life. My daughter's has been changed forever "just" from a crushed wrist.

The threshold is when the other guy turns and runs or is no longer capable of a threat against me.

I've taught my kids to bend anything that can bend in the wrong direction. Crush, crumple, crack, twist or bite off anything that is soft tissue and that includes the 'nads.

Poke fingers THRU the eyes or ears and you definitely can twist an ear off.

The throat is a great place to beat on or bite or poke.

THERE ARE NO RULES when it comes to your safety. People, attackers included, can do wonderously strong things in the heat of the moment so just because you think they may be down for the count doesn't mean they really are. Adrenaline allows people to lift cars off of people trapped underneath.

It's up to you to make it so that THEY don't find it profitable to keep picking on you and leave. Until they leave, you are not safe.

kpm
kpm Reader
10/15/11 2:26 p.m.

Who was doing the filming and was this a shake down scheme by the women gone wrong ??

Anyone comes over the counter with the intent to do harm will leave with the words "Louisville Slugger" on their lips.

rotard
rotard Reader
10/15/11 3:45 p.m.

Some of you guys have obviously never been in a "life or death" situation. You always react with overwhelming violence until the threat is neutralized.

ncjay
ncjay Reader
10/15/11 4:30 p.m.

So, not once at any point did co workers get involved? Nice. All kinds of ways people suck these days. Just a little extra help and this situation might not have escalated as bad as it did. I for one, can't stand by and just watch, which, apparently, many people did just that. McDonald's should promote that guy and make him chief of security. They'll probably do the exact opposite.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/15/11 4:38 p.m.

the video, when played from start to finish. shows the cashier retreating from a pursuer who has already battered him. he tried flight, now he's got to fight. so he turns and fights his attackers. we can't see behind the counter once they go down. are they going for knives or guns they have in their boots? i don't know. are they trying to grab his legs and pull him down? i don't know. did the attackers' injuries come from the rod or the floor? i don't know and neither do you. once they are down, he swings a total of four more times before the video ends. did those swings land? to what part of his attackers? how do you know?

totally justified. self-defense does not end until the victim (let's remember, the cashier is the victim here) is no longer in danger.

he's going to go up the river and that's a damn shame. maybe he is a POS with a E36 M3ty background, that doesn't matter here. to quote colonel jessup, they berkeleyed with the wrong marine!

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
10/15/11 8:36 p.m.
Grizz wrote: Firstly, them being women is irrelevant.

You may think so, but you are completely incorrect.

It was relevant to the reporting of the story. It was relevant to the response of the bystanders. It was relevant to the charges that were filed.

And, it will be relevant to the court rulings.

Call it what you want, but the system is VERY biased toward women, and the fact that they were women was COMPLETELY relevant.

As previously noted, how would this have played out if it was 2 drunk men assaulting a woman employee?

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/15/11 8:45 p.m.

just the fact that he got felony assult and they got criminal mischief should tell you that it is important that they were women

ThePhranc
ThePhranc Reader
10/15/11 10:16 p.m.

He put out more justice than the system ever would have for these "women".

Grizz
Grizz HalfDork
10/15/11 10:44 p.m.

In reply to SVreX and mad_machine:

I'm aware of that, my thought was directed more at Racers "I have a hard time believing an ex-con can't control two drunk chicks without resorting to crushing skulls" than anything else.

The fact that these drunken shiny happy people were women doesn't automatically mean it's easier to control them. In fact, it's generally worse, because plenty of women seem to have this notion that they can do whatever they want to a man with no retaliation on his part. And men have that whole "it's always wrong to hit girls" thing pounded into our heads from about our 5th birthday on.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
10/15/11 11:50 p.m.

well.. the flaw in your argument about an ex-con not being able to control two drunk chicks without resorting to crushing skulls is the simple fact we don't know why he is an ex-con.

carguy123
carguy123 SuperDork
10/16/11 12:13 a.m.

I think he meant the fact they were women wasn't relevant to whether or not there was any real danger in the attack by them.

When you are on the receiving end and don't know what their intentions are you have to presume the worse so the fact they were women wasn't relevant to him being concerned about being maimed for life or worse.

RealMiniDriver
RealMiniDriver Dork
10/16/11 12:40 a.m.
mad_machine wrote: well.. the flaw in your argument about an ex-con not being able to control two drunk chicks without resorting to crushing skulls is the simple fact we don't know why he is an ex-con.
The Article wrote: McIntosh served more than a decade in prison after shooting and killing a high school classmate in 2000.
EdenPrime
EdenPrime New Reader
10/16/11 1:21 a.m.

I keep wondering when all these kinds of people will kill each other off.

novaderrik
novaderrik Dork
10/16/11 5:35 a.m.
RealMiniDriver wrote:
mad_machine wrote: well.. the flaw in your argument about an ex-con not being able to control two drunk chicks without resorting to crushing skulls is the simple fact we don't know why he is an ex-con.
The Article wrote: McIntosh served more than a decade in prison after shooting and killing a high school classmate in 2000.

we don't know the circumstances that led to him killing his classmate..maybe this guy just sometimes gets attacked and meets their level of violence with a slightly increased level of violence..

fasted58
fasted58 SuperDork
10/16/11 6:03 a.m.
AngryCorvair wrote: the video, when played from start to finish. shows the cashier retreating from a pursuer who has already battered him. he tried flight, now he's got to fight. so he turns and fights his attackers. we can't see behind the counter once they go down. are they going for knives or guns they have in their boots? i don't know. are they trying to grab his legs and pull him down? i don't know. did the attackers' injuries come from the rod or the floor? i don't know and neither do you. once they are down, he swings a total of four more times before the video ends. did those swings land? to what part of his attackers? how do you know? totally justified. self-defense does not end until the victim (let's remember, the cashier is the victim here) is no longer in danger. he's going to go up the river and that's a damn shame. maybe he is a POS with a E36 M3ty background, that doesn't matter here. to quote colonel jessup, they berkeleyed with the wrong marine!

After watching the video on another site that had cropped and enlarged the video, the two women who were then already behind the counter were obviously following the cashier into the cook area.That is being overly aggressive to me, are employees just supposed to run away... and to where? When the cashier happened on the rod he drove them back to behind the counter space. That might have been enough but like you said nobody knows what was happening out of camera sight.

Ugh, had that been a private burger joint the owner woulda prolly capped the bitches, end of story

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