Having been tempted by this long enough, I picked up a lightly used G27, clamped it to something, and loaded up Assetto Corsa. I figured that as popular as it is, this the force feedback stuff must have improved over the years, to where there would at least be some baseline level of familiarity in steering feel for anybody who has ever driven a car in anger... Some modest correlation between the game and real life. So far, it would seem that I was wrong. Force? Yes. Feedback? No.
I know I'm kind of an idiot on this stuff, but have I done something wrong here, or are the expectations I thought were modest actually completely out of line? I have not yet done the 'nice but not necessary' stuff (config manager, etc) yet, as none of the descriptions I saw noted affecting the driving experience itself. All I'm trying to do is get the wheel dialed in first. If that stuff also includes better force/feedback, then I'll get right on it.
But even what should be a docile little Miata is nearly undriveable. Ignoring the dead spot in the center, turn in and it resists. No significant G or slip related progression. Mostly just blind resistive force. No real indication if understeering or oversteering until it's too late. Trying to change steering with any speed only results in the wheel falling so far behind it easily pushes the wrong way, leading to weird wheel force induced 'tank slappers' for no reason on corner exist.
First I followed the set up instructions linked in the 1st post of the Assetto Corsa thread. Then I adjusted it to match the GRM recommendation (although steering angle still at 900 rather than 200) from the 1st post of the Assetto Corsa. Now I've come across this:
https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/rasmusps-luts-for-g27-29-and-dfgt.16799/
I'm wondering if anybody here has tried it, and if it might provide the minimally realistic driving feel I was looking for?...Or anything else that might. Otherwise, I'm not sure how much more time/effort it'll be worth putting into this little endeavor .
If you jump into the grm discord I'm sure me, or someone smarter can help you set the ff up. I don't have that wheel any longer, but it was pretty good from what I remember.
I have a G27. I can give you what settings I have. I will be on Discord before the race tomorrow. I will see if I have an settings in addition to, or different from the ones on the first page.
One thing I do do fairly often is adjust the feed back based on the car, it can be prettier inconsistent. There is an add-on app that makes it very easy and saves the setting.
I assume you loaded in the Ghub software? Mine was a bit flakey at first. I had to go in and remove all drivers from the system. Windows tried to use some generic drivers for my G27, making it act weird.
We are around tonight. Get into the voice chat and we can see about helping you out.
I did not loaded GHub, as the other thread only mentions it for G29 and a quick search seemed to bring up compatibility issues with it between G27 and older wheels and Windows 10/11 machines.
I did try the LUT thing. It may be all in my head, as I can't pinpoint what is really different, but it did seem to help my overall control. However, it does not fix the 'unnatural' feeling forces.
Thanks for the offers to try walking me through it. Unfortunately, Wednesday evenings are particularly busy. I probably won't be on to futz with this more until late-PST. It's not particularly urgent, so if not tonight, I'm sure I'll see somebody on eventually.
I am pretty sure I used GHub for my G27, although I think it was only good for initial setup, I haven't messed with it since. The other thing you can try is that there is a setting somewhere in AC that is something like "improve FWD feedback" which you might try. The feedback aspects do have a lot of ability to be adjusted (road feel etc), so it might just take some amount of playing with it.
NOHOME
MegaDork
3/1/23 5:01 p.m.
My take on all things e-driving was that they were meant for people who did not drive actual cars. If not given the chance to compare, the e-driving experience is what it is, and valid in its own context, but both meaningless and offensive to anyone who has actually driven a car.
I have yet to be proven wrong.
Disclaimer: I have never understood the attraction of ANY video game skill unless it was puzzle based.
NOHOME said:
My take on all things e-driving was that they were meant for people who did not drive actual cars. If not given the chance to compare, the e-driving experience is what it is, and valid in its own context, but both meaningless and offensive to anyone who has actually driven a car.
I have yet to be proven wrong.
Disclaimer: I have never understood the attraction of ANY video game skill unless it was puzzle based.
Ok I will bite on this. What are you talking about? I don't see the relevance of your post to anything in this thread.
Are you having a bad day?
Need a Snickers or Something?
Did I miss a post in this thread?
All I can say is relax a little. It is just a video game. It is entertainment. I am sorry if you are offended by racing sims. Different people have different takeaways from different things. You are entitled to your opinion but dam dude offensive and meaningless? Really? I think you are being a bit harsh but you do you I guess.
NOHOME
MegaDork
3/1/23 6:25 p.m.
In reply to dean1484 :
No, not offended, just that someone posted that simulated driving on a racetrack was not equivalent to real driving and I agree.
Actually having a great day! Do carry on.
NOHOME said:
In reply to dean1484 :
No, not offended, just that someone posted that simulated driving on a racetrack was not equivalent to real driving and I agree.
Actually having a great day! Do carry on.
NOHOME said:
My take on all things e-driving was that they were meant for people who did not drive actual cars. If not given the chance to compare, the e-driving
experience is what it is, and valid in its own context, but both meaningless and offensive to anyone who has actually driven a car.
Well, if you're not offended then I guess that must mean that you have never actually driven a car.
Anyway the folks who have actually driven cars but also like enjoying some video game car time with their internet pals will continue helping each other sort technical difficulties with their video game controllers here and indeed carry on.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...
While I didn't get a chance to jump on discord to see if anybody was there late last night, nor download GHub, I did play with it some more.
To this point, it seemed that when I was slow to unwind the steering it was fine, but the faster I went the more tank-slapper effect there was. The force feedback would push me past center, then suddenly release and push back the other way. A little too fast and it would be a little wiggle on corner exit. A lot too fast and it would be 2-3 times increasing into a spin.
I decided to try something FWD to see what getting rid of the spins caused by my hamfisted over-driving. It was totally acceptable, even unwinding the steering quite quickly. Ok, so it's not the steering speed but the over-steer.
So I went back to the Miata again. Apparently this thing is very over-steery at speed. It would seem that the main problem I'm having is that I cannot detect any difference in feel between the steering resistance from being in a turn, the steering resistance from the slip of under steer, and the steering resistance from the slip of oversteer. As I try to countersteer the slide, it doesn't ever seem to ease into a feeling of balance. It's all the same force one way, until it flops to the same force the opposite way as the car swings around. I've tried playing with turning 'slip' up and down, but that doesn't seem to be the right setting. I even tried basically turning the force feedback way down, and if I didn't drive better without any 'feedback', I certainly didn't drive worse without the sensory confusion.
Without the forces acting on the body, I can't figure out how to 'feel' what the car is doing through the wheel, which is the whole point of force feedback to me. But at least I'm narrowing in on the problem to hopefully help you to help me.
Hummm. There are settings that I had to mess with in content manager or maybe ghub that I used to help with this. I think Aircooled may have posted them up somewhere in the beginning of the Assetto Corsa thread. When I get home tonight I will see about looking for that.
In reply to Driven5 :
These settings sound like centering-spring strength issues to me. You can adjust that in G-Hub. I also find the enhanced understeer effect in Assetto corsa helpful for lower-strength wheels.
I haven't messed with the FFB Clipping or LUT's yet, but the rest of this guide has been helpful to me and I believe provides at least decent direction to start trying stuff to get it tuned up to your liking.
This is how the FFB works--and how to Set it up : assettocorsa (reddit.com)
As a heads-up, it may take a bit of somewhat frustrating iteration to get it sorted out, but once you have the settings saved (highly recommend saving whatever settings you end up liking as a preset in Assetto so that you don't lose them and have something to go back to if you experiment), it's smooth sailing from there. I also agree with the above guide's rec to use the KTM XBow (also would turn on ABS in the realism tab while you're experimenting to decrease frustration), it provides excellent feedback compared to a lot of cars in the game (I find the stock ND's steering is very light and makes it hard to tell if your settings are good).
Definitely get the FFB clipping app. I have to use that to adjust for a lot new cars we try. Many will clip. The app saves what you set it to so you only need to set each car once.
Well G Hub is a bust. Not sure if it's the oldness of the G27, the newness of my Windows 11 computer, or a bit of both. The one in aircooled's docs gets to where is should have finished installing GHub and freezes on that screen, and the latest version from Logitech loads up but won't detect my wheel.
I'm also considering if there is any chance that the Profiler may be having issues as well, since it does not officially support Windows 11... Even though it seems to otherwise load and work ok, I've seen some mentions of issues related to this. Most of this is well outside of my wheelhouse though.
Next up will be the clipping app. Not sure what comes next if that doesn't work.
Driven5 said:
Well G Hub is a bust.
Yeah the G27 is not supported by Ghub, so you have to use the old Logitech Gaming Software: https://download01.logi.com/web/ftp/pub/techsupport/joystick/lgs510_x64.exe
Yes, that's the profiler I've been using from the start.
Good news though: I couldn't tell you exactly what the clipping app is doing differently, but it has mad a big improvement. I'm sure once I learn how to dial it in more, it might get even better. But my control mad a sudden and dramatic improvement. This might just work out yet.
NOHOME said:
My take on all things e-driving was that they were meant for people who did not drive actual cars. If not given the chance to compare, the e-driving experience is what it is, and valid in its own context, but both meaningless and offensive to anyone who has actually driven a car.
I have yet to be proven wrong.
Disclaimer: I have never understood the attraction of ANY video game skill unless it was puzzle based.
You are definitely wrong, but it's kind of hard to prove unless you were to use a properly set up sim rig, so it's a pointless argument.
Ok... So I'm sure I can still improve my setup, but just to get a ballpark of where I'm at skill wise:
Are you guys using (allowing) any traction/stability/abs for various levels of cars?
How far off pace is 204.5 for a stock NA Miata at Laguna Seca?
For the current series If it is on the car you can use it. TC is an important part of tuning a car as it greatly changes how a car rotated under power. ABS is a must in many cars. Mostly because threshold braking is hard to do in a sim environment.
How far off pace is 204.5 for a stock NA Miata at Laguna Seca?
I have no clue on that. I would have to test that. I have several Miata's so I would have to make sure we are using the same one. That would be a fun car at that track.
Have you tried the Miata cup car? I think it is a Kunos car but not 100 percent sure on that.
In reply to dean1484 :
I just picked the standard (1990?) NA Miata that the game comes with initially as something familiar to me, and turned off the traction/stability control to get a baseline for how this sim/FFB stuff all works. I'll give the cup car a try next.
I'm glad the nanny setting can be used as a drivability tuning tool, since my first drive in the KTM was great, right up until it wasn't. Seems it might be a bit 'much' for me still, but I can see where it might be good for dialing in settings.
The first few times I tried the KTM it was a nightmare for me. Not a beginner friendly car, especially new to Assetto Corsa
The KTM is one of my least favorite cars to drive in the game.
