Can Dodge survive in a world without the V8?

Good question, can the brand make the transition...? 

This is just a rebadged Alfa, right?

I imagine within five years either Chrysler or Dodge is gone.  We don't have a lot of auto brands with three or less models.  

This could be a Chrysler Something as easily as it is a Dodge.  I don't really know what either brand is supposed to stand for that is separate from the other if we get rid of rowdy V8's.  What are they going to do, stick Scat Pack bee's on this thing?

To answer the title question...the number of V6 challengers on the road says "yes".

Besides, the audio system will make musclecar noises for all of the models not so equipped. That's all people want, right?

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

This is just a rebadged Alfa, right?

I imagine within five years either Chrysler or Dodge is gone.  We don't have a lot of auto brands with three or less models.  

This could be a Chrysler Something as easily as it is a Dodge.  I don't really know what either brand is supposed to stand for that is separate from the other if we get rid of rowdy V8's.  What are they going to do, stick Scat Pack bee's on this thing?

Oh Lord, please don't let the survivor be Fiat... 

Does anybody really care about branding when everybody is making look alike SUVs and Crossovers?

The Challenger will go away. The Charger will go away. Dodge can go away. Stellantis can go away too. GM, Ford and Toyota make the same thing with different badges.

As I mentioned in the 28 page monster I started; I don't see the V8 going away soon but as my predictions as Nostra-Thomas are frequently  wrong I will say this.

As long as the vehicle offers some serious acceleration (it's what people want in a Dodge) then Dodge will be just fine. 

Nockenwelle said:

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

This is just a rebadged Alfa, right?

I imagine within five years either Chrysler or Dodge is gone.  We don't have a lot of auto brands with three or less models.  

This could be a Chrysler Something as easily as it is a Dodge.  I don't really know what either brand is supposed to stand for that is separate from the other if we get rid of rowdy V8's.  What are they going to do, stick Scat Pack bee's on this thing?

Oh Lord, please don't let the survivor be Fiat... 

I think either Chrysler or Dodge will live and the other won't.  Honestly I could see us ending up with Dodge, Ram, and Jeep as the three "American" brands in Stellanis.  Maybe each gets one sort of unique offering; Ram gets a truck platform, Jeep has the Wrangler, and Dodge gets some heavily reworked sedan from Europe.  Everything else is something that exists at least twice somewhere else.  

All Stellantis seems to want to do is shrink N. American operations.  And Italian.

There will always be a way to Dodge-ify whatever the rest of the industry is doing... And I think that continues to appeal to a big enough subset of the population to support their continued existence.

I see Chrysler being in the weaker position.

1.3 liter?  Is there anything else on the market in the US that's smaller?

It'd take two of those to match the displacement of the supercharger on the Demon.

If they can market raucous at an attractive price, they'll survive long enough to be sold off to somebody else. As heavily as electric power plants are being pushed, consumers are getting what we're given. There will be plenty of Dodge e-emblems in the deployment parking lots while our 19 year olds are off bringing freedom to some mineral rich 3rd world country. 

With the crackdown on tuning and reinforcement of proprietary engine software, I can see the near future where electric tuning is more accessible.

David S. Wallens said:

Good question, can the brand make the transition...? 

I think so. Their brand is more about bulk horsepower than how it's produced. 

They'll be fine.

Ford has successfully sold both a v6 full sized pickup AND a v6 hypercar. And guess what? People can't get enough of 'em.

As Keith noted, as long as the speed is cheap, Dodge owners won't care

Keith Tanner said:

I think so. Their brand is more about bulk horsepower than how it's produced. 

calteg said:

As long as the speed is cheap, Dodge owners won't care

Really good points. Dodge seems to have succeeded in being a "rowdy" car maker. If they can carry that over into the world of electrification (which should be easy for them), Dodge should do just fine.

Tom1200 said:

As I mentioned in the 28 page monster I started; I don't see the V8 going away soon but as my predictions as Nostra-Thomas are frequently  wrong I will say this.

As long as the vehicle offers some serious acceleration (it's what people want in a Dodge) then Dodge will be just fine. 

 

They said the same thing about Pontiac.

Time to do what they did at the end of the first muscle-car era:  reintroduce the K-car.   

I mean, I didn't think they were really "making it" WITH the V8. poor build quality, spotty reliability, dated designs all glossed over with bigger and bigger engines and superchargers. 

Wife and I've been keeping an eye on these as a potential new car.  One thing not mentioned in the article, but that I've seen elsewhere, is they will supposedly offer staged performance packs from Mopar for them.  If they go the route like they did for the SRT-4's where it's true power bumps and not just appearance packages, then I think it's a potential niche market for them.  There are lots of hybrids out there, but I don't recall seeing any of them used as a platform to squeeze as much power as possible out of them.  Everyone (as would be expected) focuses on the MPG's.  Dodge instead going for max power seems very much on brand......

-Rob

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Tom1200 said:

As I mentioned in the 28 page monster I started; I don't see the V8 going away soon but as my predictions as Nostra-Thomas are frequently  wrong I will say this.

As long as the vehicle offers some serious acceleration (it's what people want in a Dodge) then Dodge will be just fine. 

 

They said the same thing about Pontiac.

One of my few predictions that I was right about; for years I asked why they need Pontiac and Oldsmobile.

I really like Pontiac's product line; G8,  GTO, Solstice etc. but even with that  I knew it wasn't viable, GM was bloated.

What I do see as a possibility is the Dodge V8 going away in cars and then hastily being brought back around the 2028-2032 range.

I also see it being possible that Dodge will be all electric and RAM selling V8 SUVs.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I still don't understand why Ram exists. What's wrong with calling them Dodge Trucks as they had done for decades?

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

Most pesimistic: easier to kill Dodge this way.

Most optimistic:  easier to focus on what both Dodge and Ram could be; "the cars and such" brand + "the trucks" brand.  But since Fiat itself isn't organized that way... I really don't know what's keeping Dodge around.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

I still don't understand why Ram exists. What's wrong with calling them Dodge Trucks as they had done for decades?

For pick ups, brand loyalty.  GM has both Chevy and GMC and they are the same thing. 

And I don't see a real issue for Dodge- if they have *something* that has a V8 so that they can advertise it, then they can have something else to sell as well. 

As for the 1.3L, it's a generator.  Based on a side project I was working on just as I retired, it's almost a perfect engine for the job.

We were looking at a derated 2.5l for the same thing (as it was a cheap engine).   Or even a basic 1.0l for a different package.

In reply to alfadriver :

I think there would be more brand loyalty for a legacy brand like "Dodge Trucks", than from a new label named after a male sheep.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

It would appear to be Lexus & Infiniti kind of thing.

Think about it long term if Dodge tanks you still have RAM; Americans love trucks and SUVs.

These companies have been badge engineering for so long, it's almost irrelevant to ask whether a particular brand will last or not.  I expect the market adoption of EV's to have a substantial impact on future badge engineering and it might affect brands known for big V8's more than the others, but the products will be the products and it's just a matter of which pigs get the lipstick.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to alfadriver :

I think there would be more brand loyalty for a legacy brand like "Dodge Trucks", than from a new label named after a male sheep.

You can certainly think that, but bear in mind, Ram Trucks does exist.  If it were as bad as you think, it would have been gone a long time ago.  

alfadriver said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to alfadriver :

I think there would be more brand loyalty for a legacy brand like "Dodge Trucks", than from a new label named after a male sheep.

You can certainly think that, but bear in mind, Ram Trucks does exist.  If it were as bad as you think, it would have been gone a long time ago.  

Dodge trucks became Ram trucks in 2012, I think. They've been Ram a pretty long time in the market's eye. If you go to Dodge.com, there are no trucks anywhere.

That's about the same amount of time as between Datsun and this:

Irony: one could buy a Hornet with a 304 V8.

This is actually a secret maneuver to bring the REAL puppetmaster back into the fore, now they can be open and public about to fit their goals: AMC!

Error404 said:

. There will be plenty of Dodge e-emblems in the deployment parking lots while our 19 year olds are off bringing freedom to some mineral rich 3rd world country. 

 

bought right outside the front gate at 12% interest, the day after re-signing bonus received....

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:

These companies have been badge engineering for so long, it's almost irrelevant to ask whether a particular brand will last or not.  I expect the market adoption of EV's to have a substantial impact on future badge engineering and it might affect brands known for big V8's more than the others, but the products will be the products and it's just a matter of which pigs get the lipstick.

The Dodge RAM Raider (aka Mitsubishi Montero/Pajero/Shogun and yes, it has both Dodge and RAM badges and has exactly 0.1% Dodge parts content) in my driveway agrees.

side note: the Mitsubishi 6G72 engine in it powered thousands of Chrysler minivans too!

I just wished they called it an Omni

Colin Wood said:

Keith Tanner said:

I think so. Their brand is more about bulk horsepower than how it's produced. 

calteg said:

As long as the speed is cheap, Dodge owners won't care

Really good points. Dodge seems to have succeeded in being a "rowdy" car maker. If they can carry that over into the world of electrification (which should be easy for them), Dodge should do just fine.

I think these are the key points.  The Challenger/Charger have become image vehicles and a cultural symbol of being "rowdy".  If they can keep that going into the next generation of vehicle, they'll stick around.  If not, they'll be gone.

I think you guys are looking at this all wrong.

There was warning signs of failure before FCA took them over but kept afloat by jeep/Ram truck. Charger/Challenger is just recycled 90s Mercedes when they were Daimler Chrysler. and those cars are still being made today!

Now they are owned by PSA so there is a whole new set of platforms and vehicle parts bin engineering at their disposal that is "new" to us but can offer something that looks nice with features we want (remember Korean cars in the late 90s/early 00s? Plenty of Lexus/MB tech but for rock bottom prices) They are currently posting huge profits because they aren't reinventing the wheel all the time, they are just offering people cars with content that they want and that sells. 

They'll be fine. Ford has me worried because of consistent quality issues and bad investments, also a CEO that thinks he is some sort of Steve Jobs syndrome but mostly the new CEO there gets punished for the old CEOs launches and wonders why performance is below expectations... 

As long as we can get some that looks reasonably close to this and can leave long black streaks on the pavement  while generating an enormous cloud of tire smoke Dodge will be fine. 

mblommel said:

As long as we can get some that looks reasonably close to this and can leave long black streaks on the pavement  while generating an enormous cloud of tire smoke Dodge will be fine. 

But is that what they will build? The thing at the top of this thread looks more like a rebadged 4 door crossover. A Challenger EV would be great.

They made it through the 1990s without selling a single V8 passenger car.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I guess I got a bit off topic. Sorry about that. No idea if the re-badged Alfa is going to do do well. The other re-badged Alfa (Dart) didn't do so hot so I expect this one to flounder too. 

Dodge seems committed to a muscle electric chassis with probable Charger and Challenger versions. I'm hopeful.

Wow. This thread made me think about modern Dodges for the first time ever.

I just associate them with dudes who tuck their ears into their baseball caps running around straight piped so everyone notices them but, surely they had another market? 

I looked at their website. 4 vehicles are all they offer.  No more minivans, darts or anything. I had no idea.

What percent of their cars actually have V8s?  A little research will get you your answer. My bet it is a much smaller percentage than many realize. 

In reply to mblommel :

IMO the pooch was screwed on the Dart when it wasn't AWD. The looks were there but if it would have been AWD and Turbo it could have been an EVO/STI competitor. I mean...they marketed it by having a few branded in Rallycross. I was so disappointed when I found out it wasn't an option, and at that point I would have seriously looked a buying one if it had.

As for this Hornet...my first impression is 1. Just another crapy crossover, and 2. It would look better if it was 8" lower

dean1484 said:

What percent of their cars actually have V8s?  A little research will get you your answer. My bet it is a much smaller percentage than many realize. 

A lot of the police Chargers around here are actually V6s. But they are still rear wheel drive.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Irony: one could buy a Hornet with a 304 V8.

Then slide in a 401.  So stealth that even the dealer won't know unless they open it up.  

We’ll have the chance to drive the Hornet this week

Did y'all get a chance to drive it yet?  Really curious what GRM thinks of it. 

-Rob

In reply to rob_lewis :

We did drive it, and we'll be sharing our thoughts later this week. Stay tuned!

In reply to Tom1200 :

I think with the squeeze of incomes that has been happening lately.   The Dodge Chrysler thing will continue on for a while.   
  Just like some other brands are hanging on in name only.   One other example is Jaguar.  Loosing Sir William Lyons  basically killed off what was great about Jaguar just as the loss of Colin Chapman killed off Lotus.  
  Oh, they exist as badges. However the SOUL of the company  is really gone.  Aston Martin and Even Ferrari  could be in danger as well.  
   

dean1484 said:

What percent of their cars actually have V8s?  A little research will get you your answer. My bet it is a much smaller percentage than many realize. 

A lot of Challengers around here have V6s.  And they sound amazing with the right exhaust.