ICYMI: Hyundai to Make Its Own Version of the Honda Ridgeline

Also worth mentioning? The Ford Maverick. Looking at a few of the spy photos, it may be even smaller than the Ranger:

Is it me or does the Maverick look just like a F150. Size and everything. 

^Everything still looks obese with that much hood height and that high of bed sides.

I swear everyone on the GRM forum is into slammed minitrucks with the bed side comments.

I like high bed sides. Lets me put stuff in the bed. My first-gen Tundra had lower bed sides, I could only stack tires one level deep with the cover on. Now I can stack them two levels deep.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

It's not really the depth of the box that's an issue. Modern trucks don't have bedsides that are much different from the good ole days trucks. The box on a 1950s Ford F150 was just shy of 20" deep, so is my 2019 Canyon. The difference is in the load floor height. The Ford was 26", my Canyon is 32" (with 4wd) and a full size is taller. The load capacity of that Ford was just over 2000#. My Canyon is less. The beef that I have with modern trucks is I think they're built taller than necessary just "cuz it sells". A full size truck with a passenger floor height of 31" (Ford F250 4wd) is kind of silly IMHO. There's no reason a 2wd modern truck can't be built with a 26" load floor height. I think it's a sales thing.

Edit: ...and I'll add that in the good ole days stepsides were much more prevalent to ease side loading .

I'm old enough to realize that what I think 'looks/works' well isn't what many younger drivers would agree with. Oh well, times change. Meanwhile, that Hyundai's bed length would not be worth a darn to me. That, and no slider opening rear glass, would make it a definite no go for me. But then again, many truck owners these days don't haul anything more than groceries/sodas in their truck beds.

FMB42 said:

But then again, many truck owners these days don't haul anything more than groceries/sodas in their truck beds.

That's sort of where I stand on this new wave of unibody-based trucks. If you often find yourself pulling large trailers or filling the bed with particularly heavy loads or anything like that, you sure absolutely get a more traditional body-on-frame truck.

But, if you are someone that just needs a family hauler/commuter with an oversized trunk that they can throw a bunch of stuff into without worrying about running some carpeting, then trucks like these are probably what you should buy.

I'll admit that at this point in my life I'd get more use out of the latter of the two.

I'm curious if it will be able to tow 3500lb. a BG chassis on a tow dolly is all I'm asking for. 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm curious if it will be able to tow 3500lb. a BG chassis on a tow dolly is all I'm asking for. 

If a Honda Odyssey can tow an S2000 on an open trailer, I'm sure this will do fine with that. 

I don't often haul heavy 'dent the bed up stuff' these days. But my bought used '06 Frontier bed has enough PO caused dents to make it look like I do haul heavy stuff.

Keith Tanner said:

I swear everyone on the GRM forum is into slammed minitrucks with the bed side comments.

I like high bed sides. Lets me put stuff in the bed. My first-gen Tundra had lower bed sides, I could only stack tires one level deep with the cover on. Now I can stack them two levels deep.

My dad has an 02 Ranger 2wd xl that only had AC and a sliding rear window as options.  He has had it since new and has been looking to replace it for a few years now. He can't find anything he likes because the load height is so much higher on everything now. He is super excited about the possibility of a Maverick/SantaCruz. He really likes being able to reach over the bed-sides to reach what he wants to retrieve/load. We let him borrow our 2019 Ridgeline but he said that even that was too high for him.

dean1484 said:

Is it me or does the Maverick look just like a F150. Size and everything. 

Its smaller than the Ranger but not by much:

Keith Tanner said:

I swear everyone on the GRM forum is into slammed minitrucks with the bed side comments.

I like high bed sides. Lets me put stuff in the bed. My first-gen Tundra had lower bed sides, I could only stack tires one level deep with the cover on. Now I can stack them two levels deep.

My interpretation of this post is you need wider tires :)

To be fair, aren't modern trucks so tall because they're full of good stuff? I've parked my Super Duty next to an old truck before, and I really like the durable (and HUGE) overdrive trans, V10, big gas tank that's not in the cab with me, spare tire that's not in the bed, beefy frame that carries a house in the bed, 10k lb. towing capacity, and big enough differential to do it all for 500,000 miles at 80mph without exploding. All those things take up space. And that's before you get into the crumple zones that modern vehicles incorporate, too. 

In reply to Tom Suddard :

There you go. Inserting logic into an internet discussion...what's wrong with you?

If Hyundai hits their estimated starting price, this thing might sell like hotcakes.  Probably fits the actual needs of a lot of people and $26k with AWD or 4WD seems pretty reasonable...

Tom Suddard said:

To be fair, aren't modern trucks so tall because they're full of good stuff? I've parked my Super Duty next to an old truck before, and I really like the durable (and HUGE) overdrive trans, V10, big gas tank that's not in the cab with me, spare tire that's not in the bed, beefy frame that carries a house in the bed, 10k lb. towing capacity, and big enough differential to do it all for 500,000 miles at 80mph without exploding. All those things take up space. And that's before you get into the crumple zones that modern vehicles incorporate, too. 

Partially, yeah.

A base 2020 F150 comes with a tire 3" taller than a 1990 F150.  The disparity in the 4x4 models is 4"  Bed depth may be an inch or two different.  Then some extra body height for a gas tank or transmission.  And next thing you know your bedside is significantly higher.

I totally get the loading height thing.  My 1994 SW2 had a loading height that was knee height.  My veloster has a loading height like 10" higher for no apparent reason and its dumb.

If its something I want to use frequently, I don't want to lift stuff up to shoulder height to load it in the truck.

I really wish Hyundai would make their own version of the Toyota Land Cruiser. I think there would be a demand for it. 

Loading height was bad even on my 1999 F250 so the PO put a liftgate on it. Truck was not even lifted. The New F150's dwarf my old truck in 4x4 packages. 

They are going to sell these things like crazy. If them may a G80 style interior and make a "king ranch" version it would get me out of my Flex.  

The frame strength, payload, and towing capacity wars have also made the frame rails on modern trucks a whole lot taller.  And if they want that payload without really stiff rear suspension, they need to leave room for lots of travel in the rear too. 

Tom Suddard said:

To be fair, aren't modern trucks so tall because they're full of good stuff? I've parked my Super Duty next to an old truck before, and I really like the durable (and HUGE) overdrive trans, V10, big gas tank that's not in the cab with me, spare tire that's not in the bed, beefy frame that carries a house in the bed, 10k lb. towing capacity, and big enough differential to do it all for 500,000 miles at 80mph without exploding. All those things take up space. And that's before you get into the crumple zones that modern vehicles incorporate, too. 

You're trailering cars all the time (I assume) due to your occupation, though. All that stuff is very useful for that. Someone wanting a little truck isn't looking to do that. I don't pull enough cars to justify owning a big truck. I'd actually consider getting rid of my 1st Gen Colorado for a 2nd gen Ranger to have something that's smaller, more fun and easier on gas. Old Rangers are so fun.

stanger_mussle (Forum Supporter) said:

dean1484 said:

Is it me or does the Maverick look just like a F150. Size and everything. 

Its smaller than the Ranger but not by much:

The Maverick's bumper does look a lot lower than the Ranger's. Are these both 4x4s, 2wds or what? I see that the Ranger is an FX4, but are there 2wd FX4s like how Toyota has Prerunners? My dad had a Canyon Off-Road which was a 2wd at 4X4 height with 4x4 tires.

Colin Wood said:

FMB42 said:

But then again, many truck owners these days don't haul anything more than groceries/sodas in their truck beds.

That's sort of where I stand on this new wave of unibody-based trucks. If you often find yourself pulling large trailers or filling the bed with particularly heavy loads or anything like that, you sure absolutely get a more traditional body-on-frame truck.

But, if you are someone that just needs a family hauler/commuter with an oversized trunk that they can throw a bunch of stuff into without worrying about running some carpeting, then trucks like these are probably what you should buy.

I'll admit that at this point in my life I'd get more use out of the latter of the two.

I was at walmart the other day picking up some mulch in my Sequoia. In front of me was a guy picking up 15 bags of mulch in his late model AUDI A6 (half the bags went into is presumably very nice back seat). In front of him was someone trying to get 6 bags into the trunk of a Jetta (I think they originally wanted 8).

This thing is for those people....the suburbanites. It's not for Contractor John picking up sheets of drywall and lumber, or for Bro John, who needs a big truck to prove his manhood, or for Hauler John who likes to drag old Cadillacs home on his 20' car trailer.

IDK if it really suits my personal needs, but I can tell you this thing would be perfect for most of my suburbanite neighbors, who more often than not are hitting me up to use my Sequioa or my utility trailer to go pick stuff up since they either have crossovers with no space, regular cars, or SUVs that are too nice to actually put "dirty stuff' inside of.

Come on, we all know trucks are so high because they're a little boy's fantasy for grown ups. They're impractical for loading because that's not what buyers use it for. Maybe 5% of buyers use trucks as a truck. Why would someone beat the crap out of a $50k+ truck? They wouldn't.

I think the Santa Cruz looks good for what it is and it would make a lot of sense for a lot of theoretical buyers. It remains to be seen if those people exist, of if it'll only serve to run the Ridgeline out of the market again.

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

I was at walmart the other day picking up some mulch in my Sequoia. In front of me was a guy picking up 15 bags of mulch in his late model AUDI A6 (half the bags went into is presumably very nice back seat). In front of him was someone trying to get 6 bags into the trunk of a Jetta (I think they originally wanted 8).

These people are weirdos.  I'll pick up 2 or 3 bags of mulch if needed in the back of my car.  More than that?  The mulch place with come by with a dump bed and drop whatever I need in my driveway for such a small fee I would never bother with bags/going to hardware store/getting my car filthy/etc.

The same goes for wood.  I just ordered 7 sheets of wood for my CNC router.  If I had a truck I could have picked them up.  But for $35 extra, it came right to me, along with a guy to help unload it exactly where I needed it.  I never left my house.

The solution for suburbanites is professional services.  Much easier and cheaper than truck ownership.

Yes, I recognize there are times when professional services don't cover the gap.

GCrites80s said:

Tom Suddard said:

To be fair, aren't modern trucks so tall because they're full of good stuff? I've parked my Super Duty next to an old truck before, and I really like the durable (and HUGE) overdrive trans, V10, big gas tank that's not in the cab with me, spare tire that's not in the bed, beefy frame that carries a house in the bed, 10k lb. towing capacity, and big enough differential to do it all for 500,000 miles at 80mph without exploding. All those things take up space. And that's before you get into the crumple zones that modern vehicles incorporate, too. 

You're trailering cars all the time (I assume) due to your occupation, though. All that stuff is very useful for that. Someone wanting a little truck isn't looking to do that. I don't pull enough cars to justify owning a big truck. I'd actually consider getting rid of my 1st Gen Colorado for a 2nd gen Ranger to have something that's smaller, more fun and easier on gas. Old Rangers are so fun.

Oh yeah, while I'll defend how big modern trucks are, I won't defend the way most of them are used. Mine is parked unless it's towing or hauling, and I'll use my hatchback to pick up the occasional bag or two of mulch because that's not worth breaking the truck out. I have no idea why you'd buy a 3/4 ton or bigger truck and use it as a car, that just seems miserable.

A Ridgeline would be a better vehicle for 75% of F-150 owners. But modern F-150s are also pretty nice....

All this talk about high bedrails makes me wonder why Americans rarely do flatbeds. Popular all over the world except here. You get a lot larger bed footprint, reach-in from 3-sides, and it's easy to do tooolboxes under:

Back to the Santa Cruz. My main gripe with the Ridgeline is how wide it is. The Hundog will fit parking places and narrow trails better.

Oh, and Tommy: The new Chevy 2500 HD looks like  caricature of an overstuffed truck. Is there any reason besides penis measuring to have a hood so high? 

ProDarwin said:

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

I was at walmart the other day picking up some mulch in my Sequoia. In front of me was a guy picking up 15 bags of mulch in his late model AUDI A6 (half the bags went into is presumably very nice back seat). In front of him was someone trying to get 6 bags into the trunk of a Jetta (I think they originally wanted 8).

These people are weirdos.  I'll pick up 2 or 3 bags of mulch if needed in the back of my car.  More than that?  The mulch place with come by with a dump bed and drop whatever I need in my driveway for such a small fee I would never bother with bags/going to hardware store/getting my car filthy/etc.

The same goes for wood.  I just ordered 7 sheets of wood for my CNC router.  If I had a truck I could have picked them up.  But for $35 extra, it came right to me, along with a guy to help unload it exactly where I needed it.  I never left my house.

The solution for suburbanites is professional services.  Much easier and cheaper than truck ownership.

 

Yes, I recognize there are times when professional services don't cover the gap.

Not mentioned: the third vehicle there was a Honda Odyssey. I lost count, but I'm almost certain they put 50 bags of mulch inside that thing.....and it was a  60-something lady driving it (the wally world employees loaded it for her). 

Incidentally, I got 8 bags in my Sequoia, which all fit behind the third row :)

I have no need for a pickup. The Sequoia can fit 8x4 plywood inside it entirely with the seats out (which they often are), plus I do have a pickup bed trailer (used for rally support, but also for bulk material pickup). 

I pay enough to live in the burbs (thank the SWMBO for that, I hate it here). I don't have extra cash to have people deliver stuff to me, lol. Whatever I need to haul, no matter how large, I'll figure out a way to get myself (flashback to the early 2000s of me carrying a full-size sleeper sofa on the Thule rack on top of my Maxima)...

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

All this talk about high bedrails makes me wonder why Americans rarely do flatbeds. Popular all over the world except here. You get a lot larger bed footprint, reach-in from 3-sides, and it's easy to do tooolboxes under:

 

Back to the Santa Cruz. My main gripe with the Ridgeline is how wide it is. The Hundog will fit parking places and narrow trails better.

Oh, and Tommy: The new Chevy 2500 HD looks like  caricature of an overstuffed truck. Is there any reason besides penis measuring to have a hood so high? 

I walked by one of those in my work parking lot today and thought the same thing. I'm 6 feet tall and that hood must have been about shoulder-height....made me think about how the hell you can see past that to maneuver near anything.

Related note: my white-collar (and military) office building parking lot is probably a good 40% huge pickups, and I'm pretty confident everyone in the building lives in the burbs, and hardly any of them tow anything or haul bulk stuff. My coworker with the F350 dually admitted as much to me, but he does use it twice a year to pull a 5th wheel RV. And commutes in it the rest of the year.

Yeah, the tall hoods are mostly for appearance. But also a small dose of pedestrian impact regulations and a LARGE dose of cooling capacity. A huge part of that 30k lbs. tow rating on modern trucks is the giant radiator, trans cooler, and intercooler, which all need space. Same reason modern cars all have giant grilles. Engines aren't getting that much more thermally efficient, but power outputs keep increasing. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

I pay enough to live in the burbs (thank the SWMBO for that, I hate it here). I don't have extra cash to have people deliver stuff to me, lol. Whatever I need to haul, no matter how large, I'll figure out a way to get myself (flashback to the early 2000s of me carrying a full-size sleeper sofa on the Thule rack on top of my Maxima)...

I get mulch once or twice a year.  I get wood maybe a couple times a year.  If you added up all the things I have delivered, it would be under $200/yr in delivery fees, and way, way, way less than the cost of owning a truck over a less capable car.  If you are doing it every weekend, a truck certainly makes sense.  Or if you do other things with your truck like... tow a rally car. 

An odyssey will fit a 4x8 inside with the seats out.  I did that exactly once and decided it was absolutely not worth the trouble.  Useful in an emergency though.

ProDarwin said:

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

I pay enough to live in the burbs (thank the SWMBO for that, I hate it here). I don't have extra cash to have people deliver stuff to me, lol. Whatever I need to haul, no matter how large, I'll figure out a way to get myself (flashback to the early 2000s of me carrying a full-size sleeper sofa on the Thule rack on top of my Maxima)...

I get mulch once or twice a year.  I get wood maybe a couple times a year.  If you added up all the things I have delivered, it would be under $200/yr in delivery fees, and way, way, way less than the cost of owning a truck over a less capable car.  If you are doing it every weekend, a truck certainly makes sense.  Or if you do other things with your truck like... tow a rally car. 

An odyssey will fit a 4x8 inside with the seats out.  I did that exactly once and decided it was absolutely not worth the trouble.  Useful in an emergency though.

I guess thats the upside of the new hyundai trucklet: it has the bed to haul occasion al mulch, but has the comfort and small size of a CUV for everyday commuting.

We use a truck for volume, not weight. We're transporting surf/paddle boards and/or foam most often. My dad just bought an F150 because the ranger crew cab doesn't come with a long bed. He doesn't need the capacity of the F150 but they won't make a ranger with a useful length bed.

Give me this Hyundai or a Ridgeline or... competitor with a useable length(7' or bigger) bed please.

Tom Suddard said:

Yeah, the tall hoods are mostly for appearance. But also a small dose of pedestrian impact regulations 

Does not compute. The tall hood lines are directly responsible for the recent substantial increase in pedestrian deaths. The increased size and popularity of trucks and SUVs is the main cause of the 68% increase in pedestrian fatalities in the last decade according to the NHTSA and IIHS. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

ProDarwin said:

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

I pay enough to live in the burbs (thank the SWMBO for that, I hate it here). I don't have extra cash to have people deliver stuff to me, lol. Whatever I need to haul, no matter how large, I'll figure out a way to get myself (flashback to the early 2000s of me carrying a full-size sleeper sofa on the Thule rack on top of my Maxima)...

I get mulch once or twice a year.  I get wood maybe a couple times a year.  If you added up all the things I have delivered, it would be under $200/yr in delivery fees, and way, way, way less than the cost of owning a truck over a less capable car.  If you are doing it every weekend, a truck certainly makes sense.  Or if you do other things with your truck like... tow a rally car. 

An odyssey will fit a 4x8 inside with the seats out.  I did that exactly once and decided it was absolutely not worth the trouble.  Useful in an emergency though.

I guess thats the upside of the new hyundai trucklet: it has the bed to haul occasion al mulch, but has the comfort and small size of a CUV for everyday commuting.

Yeah, I can see the value here.  Seems great for the weekday commuter/errands machine, occasionally picking up stuff at hardware stores, and transporting active equipment (would 2 bikes  fit in the back with the tailgate down?  That would be great), without all the misery that comes with a full size truck.

I totally get the desire for this type of vehicle, I was just pointing out earlier that putting 50 bags of mulch in any vehicle is pretty silly.

ProDarwin said:

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

ProDarwin said:

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

I pay enough to live in the burbs (thank the SWMBO for that, I hate it here). I don't have extra cash to have people deliver stuff to me, lol. Whatever I need to haul, no matter how large, I'll figure out a way to get myself (flashback to the early 2000s of me carrying a full-size sleeper sofa on the Thule rack on top of my Maxima)...

I get mulch once or twice a year.  I get wood maybe a couple times a year.  If you added up all the things I have delivered, it would be under $200/yr in delivery fees, and way, way, way less than the cost of owning a truck over a less capable car.  If you are doing it every weekend, a truck certainly makes sense.  Or if you do other things with your truck like... tow a rally car. 

An odyssey will fit a 4x8 inside with the seats out.  I did that exactly once and decided it was absolutely not worth the trouble.  Useful in an emergency though.

I guess thats the upside of the new hyundai trucklet: it has the bed to haul occasion al mulch, but has the comfort and small size of a CUV for everyday commuting.

Yeah, I can see the value here.  Seems great for the weekday commuter/errands machine, occasionally picking up stuff at hardware stores, and transporting active equipment (would 2 bikes  fit in the back with the tailgate down?  That would be great), without all the misery that comes with a full size truck.

I totally get the desire for this type of vehicle, I was just pointing out earlier that putting 50 bags of mulch in any vehicle is pretty silly.

Truth.  If you're buying that much, get a full skid and have them put it on the trailer.  Then take back what you don't use.  Now you only have to lift each bag exactly once!

I would have a tucklet to replace two of my existing vehicles if I could afford the price of admission. (used redigline are still spendy here) I have an old full size gmc van, that I use for truck duty and really nothing else (12mpg does not make a good commuter) I also have a hand me down  1st gen CRV for use as winter snow car and "larger car" duty. One of these trucks would serve both purposes very well and still be able to tow the occasional car.

Oh, I would add that I would much prefer to have a Ridgeline or maybe even the Hyundai over the Excursion for most of what I do truckstuff with.  The Ex is nice for being able to carry 7 people and with a family of 5 that was needed occasionally back when we were allowed to do....  Things.  Most of my towing is close to or under the 5k line - the trailer is probably about 2k and the Neon is just a hair over 2k as well plus tires and stuff.

The main reason I stayed away from the Ridgeline in the past though was that I just can't get comfortable with the idea of towing with a Honda transmission.  In my brain I know that is irrational thinking but after the disaster that was the 99-03 Oddity transmission my heart just can't trust them.

I love the way these look, though, and it really is just trucky enough while having much better manners on the road and at the pump.

I switched from mulch to lava rocks. Haven't had to get mulch in 5+ years. Solution to mulch problem solved. Time to move on from that conundrum. 

wae said:

The main reason I stayed away from the Ridgeline in the past though was that I just can't get comfortable with the idea of towing with a Honda transmission.  In my brain I know that is irrational thinking but after the disaster that was the 99-03 Oddity transmission my heart just can't trust them.

The Ridgeline Tranny isn't the same as the Odyssey.  A friend used his 2008 to pull a camper all over the country without a lick of trouble. 

Going back to the idea that massive snouts are safer on pedestrians... I don't buy it. If you get whacked by a 5-foot tall grille, you're just a bug, whereas a lower grille stands a chance of deflecting your body so that you don't get the entire force of the impact at once.  The thought that you need a lot of acreage for radiator makes some sense, but otherwise, I see no good reason to have enough room in the engine bay for a roots supercharger plus tunnel-ram intake.  Besides the macho thing, that is. And god help the short person who never gets seen by the driver.

I'm not an expert on when pedestrian regulations stop mattering much (I know big stuff like a truck avoids some regulations) but yes, taller hoods are safer for pedestrians. They create more crumple between the person and the hard parts underneath, so the pedestrian doesn't whack the engine without decelerating some first. That's one reason modern cars are all so huge. 

https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/new-study-suggests-todays-suvs-are-more-lethal-to-pedestrians-than-cars

https://www.codot.gov/safety/traffic-safety-pulse/2019/march-2019/death-on-foot-americas-love-of-suvs-is-killing-pedestrians

The ridgeline or Santa Cruz are likely candidates for replacing MrsAaronT's crosstour. She likes to sit higher and we have some hobbies/aspirations that require small towing capacity and/or dirt road clearances. 

Tom Suddard said:

I'm not an expert on when pedestrian regulations stop mattering much (I know big stuff like a truck avoids some regulations) but yes, taller hoods are safer for pedestrians. They create more crumple between the person and the hard parts underneath, so the pedestrian doesn't whack the engine without decelerating some first. That's one reason modern cars are all so huge. 

I'm pretty sure that point is around the bottom of the bumper on the GM truck pictured above. 

karplus2 said:

Keith Tanner said:

I swear everyone on the GRM forum is into slammed minitrucks with the bed side comments.

I like high bed sides. Lets me put stuff in the bed. My first-gen Tundra had lower bed sides, I could only stack tires one level deep with the cover on. Now I can stack them two levels deep.

My dad has an 02 Ranger 2wd xl that only had AC and a sliding rear window as options.  He has had it since new and has been looking to replace it for a few years now. He can't find anything he likes because the load height is so much higher on everything now. He is super excited about the possibility of a Maverick/SantaCruz. He really likes being able to reach over the bed-sides to reach what he wants to retrieve/load. We let him borrow our 2019 Ridgeline but he said that even that was too high for him.

 I've had trucks of various sizes in my driveway for daily use for about 30 yrs now,hate how high the new trucks are in general.

 But it was drilled into me that there's a tailgate for a reason,its how its loaded/unloaded and nothing goes over the sides of the truck.

 And you can see the reason why when you look at the unscarred sides of my trucks despite being used as a truck every day. ;)

Tom Suddard said:

I'm not an expert on when pedestrian regulations stop mattering much (I know big stuff like a truck avoids some regulations) but yes, taller hoods are safer for pedestrians. They create more crumple between the person and the hard parts underneath, so the pedestrian doesn't whack the engine without decelerating some first. That's one reason modern cars are all so huge. 

I'd rather get hit by a ND miata at 10 mph vs a new silverado. ND Miata will likely afford me the opportunity to land on the hood with some damage to my legs/hips. Big truck would probably smack me in the head, throw me to the ground, where I hit my noggin again on some hard asphalt/concreto 

Tom Suddard said:

I'm not an expert on when pedestrian regulations stop mattering much (I know big stuff like a truck avoids some regulations) but yes, taller hoods are safer for pedestrians. They create more crumple between the person and the hard parts underneath, so the pedestrian doesn't whack the engine without decelerating some first. That's one reason modern cars are all so huge. 

If that applied here, wouldn't the NHTSA be instructing Honda Civics to have 5' high hoods? 

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

Tom Suddard said:

I'm not an expert on when pedestrian regulations stop mattering much (I know big stuff like a truck avoids some regulations) but yes, taller hoods are safer for pedestrians. They create more crumple between the person and the hard parts underneath, so the pedestrian doesn't whack the engine without decelerating some first. That's one reason modern cars are all so huge. 

If that applied here, wouldn't the NHTSA be instructing Honda Civics to have 5' high hoods? 

In this case, taller is relative to the stuff under the hood, not taller from the ground. 

In reply to rslifkin :

If you'll track back the thread, the motor is nowhere near that high, so the only reasons we can think of are needed radiator/oil cooler volume and style. 

But I'm dead guilty of hijacking. Sorry y'all.

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to rslifkin :

But I'm dead guilty of hijacking. 

Who needs a truck to haul sod if you have a Merc 450?   

Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) said:

Who needs a truck to haul sod if you have a Merc 450?   

Goes right along with this:

In reply to rslifkin :

Seems like a bad day for the pedestrian if they get hit hard enough to deform sheet metal and radiator support enough to reach the engine.  That said, I'm not sure I buy the reason is to prevent contact with hard parts of the drivetrain. Maybe distributing the impact force over a larger area of the pedestrians body in an impact. 

That motor does sit up pretty high in the chassis

the only modern Truck with a comfortable bed height for me is a Jeep Gladiator, even the tallest factory trim Mojave is only top of stomach level vs nose level in my dads new ranger.

The main thought I've had through this whole thread has been:   
who around here is going to go grab a cheap 2nd-gen Santa Fe and build their own?

An 8 x 10 utility trailer is actually a better choice than any truck for dirt, mulch, and other typical landscape work. The big benefit is not beating the crap out of a $30k -$80k vehicle. You get all of that plus a loading ramp, low lift over rails, easier tie down, ability to carry full sheets of ply, bricks, pavers, dirt bikes, lawn mowers.... 

Now back to the discussion of "real truck are too big and small trucks are too small".  LOL 

Tester: If we wanted calm, useful insight, we would have asked for it! 

Keith Tanner said:

I swear everyone on the GRM forum is into slammed minitrucks with the bed side comments.

Yes this is true.

Keith Tanner said:

I swear everyone on the GRM forum is into slammed minitrucks with the bed side comments.

I like high bed sides. Lets me put stuff in the bed. My first-gen Tundra had lower bed sides, I could only stack tires one level deep with the cover on. Now I can stack them two levels deep.

So, a certain GRM forum member comes to a rallycross with his new tow vehicle, a Dodge (er, RAM, all caps) fully loaded whatever.

Someone pointed out that the bed is like shoulder high but only forearm deep.

It is like there is a race to make load heights as difficult-high as possible.  Next up: a Chevy van with stakes on the roof, called a "pickup bed"?

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm curious if it will be able to tow 3500lb. a BG chassis on a tow dolly is all I'm asking for. 

A Volvo 240 can do that with ease.

Tom Suddard said:

To be fair, aren't modern trucks so tall because they're full of good stuff?

It's mostly air gap.

When I can see air through the wheelwells from one side to the other, it's no reason other than styling.

minivan_racer said:

Keith Tanner said:

I swear everyone on the GRM forum is into slammed minitrucks with the bed side comments.

Yes this is true.

I mean.... yeah!

Pic of me waiting at a traffic light 

I tell you what. I was easily able to load a dishwasher, clothes washer and dryer into the trucklet by myself that took two people to get into the back of my avalanche. 

Low bed floors are freaking awesome!

In reply to Trent :

Interesting looking rear window ... aftermarket, I assume?

This is just a rendering but I like it. Could be on my short list if it's close to this.

I wish Hyundai would stop with the tall but narrow wheels.

Keith Tanner said:

I swear everyone on the GRM forum is into slammed minitrucks with the bed side comments.

I like high bed sides. Lets me put stuff in the bed. My first-gen Tundra had lower bed sides, I could only stack tires one level deep with the cover on. Now I can stack them two levels deep.

I don't mind high bed sides relative to the bed floor, I can't tolerate the high bed floors.  Dad's K2500, the bed rails are almost eye level, and I can't sit my 6' tall butt on the tailgate without a pretty serious jump.

And, with stake pockets you can have the best of both worlds with a low bed.

einy (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Trent :

Interesting looking rear window ... aftermarket, I assume?

Bubble window

Lets you slide the seat back just a bit further

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

I swear everyone on the GRM forum is into slammed minitrucks with the bed side comments.

I like high bed sides. Lets me put stuff in the bed. My first-gen Tundra had lower bed sides, I could only stack tires one level deep with the cover on. Now I can stack them two levels deep.

I don't mind high bed sides relative to the bed floor, I can't tolerate the high bed floors.  Dad's K2500, the bed rails are almost eye level, and I can't sit my 6' tall butt on the tailgate without a pretty serious jump.

And, with stake pockets you can have the best of both worlds with a low bed.

Most people have no idea that things like stake pockets and the ridges stamped in the bed sheetmetal for subdividing it are there for a reason.

Just released: a teaser video from the team that designed the Santa Cruz

Accompanying press release:

FOUNTAIN VALLEY, Calif., Apr. 8, 2021 – Hyundai has released a Santa Cruz development video with teaser sketches of its eagerly anticipated Santa Cruz Sport Adventure Vehicle. An enthusiastic Hyundai design team with diverse outdoor pursuits helped fulfill the Santa Cruz concept evolution, ensuring its broad adventure capabilities. Hyundai research confirmed Santa Cruz’ appeal to urban adventure seekers that require daily urban flexibility coupled with the capability for frequent extra-urban adventures. Santa Cruz boasts bold yet sophisticated design, powerful and efficient powertrain options, a flexible, secure open bed for gear, cutting-edge connectivity and a highly maneuverable all-wheel drive platform that is equally at home in urban and adventure-focused environments.

It's reveal day!

Two engine options:

• 2.5-liter four-cylinder good for " 190+ horsepower and 180+ lb.-ft. of torque"
• 2.5-liter turbocharged four-cylinder good for "275+ horsepower and 310+ lb.-ft. of torque"

The naturally aspirated engine is backed by an eight-speed auto and rated for 3500 lbs. of towing, with the turbo model mated to an eight-speed dual-clutch and can tow 5000 lbs.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the Santa Cruz is smaller than most trucks on the road, coming in at 195.7 in. long and 75 in. wide.

I want a base level odyssey with a ridgeline driveline.  I want to be able to tow and the wife will not drive a non 4wd car in the winter. A higher end element. 

Colin Wood said:

Two engine options:

• 2.5-liter four-cylinder good for " 190+ horsepower and 180+ lb.-ft. of torque"
• 2.5-liter turbocharged four-cylinder good for "275+ horsepower and 310+ lb.-ft. of torque"

The naturally aspirated engine is backed by an eight-speed auto and rated for 3500 lbs. of towing, with the turbo model mated to an eight-speed dual-clutch and can tow 5000 lbs.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the Santa Cruz is smaller than most trucks on the road, coming in at 195.7 in. long and 75 in. wide.

Now that's an interesting one...  First time I've ever heard of a DCT being mentioned for towing.  I guess it's either got a very low 1st gear or good management of clutch engagement so they're not worried about people burning it up trying to start gently on a hill. 

Mark L (Forum Supporter) said:

I want a base level odyssey with a ridgeline driveline.  I want to be able to tow and the wife will not drive a non 4wd car in the winter. A higher end element. 

The middle row seats are in the way.  That's the only reason I can figure.

In reply to Colin Wood :

I can DIG it. 

It's okay. The shadowing in the previews hid some of the parts I don't like as much. The grill bugs me a bit.

It'll be interesting to see if the base engine is actually sold in quantity. If it isn't just a "price leader" model, they're going after a part of the market that hasn't existed since the 2000s Ranger/Colorado, etc. Edit: I suppose the Taco is in this market too.

It *feels* to me that people must exist out there who want a smaller, more affordable truck. I fully admit that I don't intuitively understand the general truck market. The Tuscon starts ~$24k. Is it possible this could too?

The build in tonneau cover is interesting. I'm sure lots of people will appreciate it. I'm wondering if it can come out so I can push a motorcycle wheel flat against the back of the bed. 

Looks great and I bet they sell a ton of them.  My kids 110 cc dirt bike would fit in the back but not my 250 cc.  Guess I'll just keep my $300 trailer. 

I want one and I hope the upper trim & engine lands below $45k.

My '85 Brat had rear facing jump seats and wouldn't that be crazy in something like this.  

I am essentially their Target demographic. Except I'm too damn cheap to buy a new one. It really is a modern-day El Camino.

I like it a lot. Better than I expected.  Now waiting for pricing and availability.  I have always liked the Ridgeline but it was just a little bit too big for my needs.

Hands on with TFL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D-fKzm_T_w&list=TLPQMTUwNDIwMjFwEstrqivNpQ&index=2

In reply to fasted58 :

Wow, that bed's small. Cue unwanted images of Subarus. Might be a bit too "lifestyle" for my needs.

I do like that it seems to embrace the idea that it's basically a tall car with outside dirty object storage (read: truck shaped object for those who need a few aspects of a truck, but don't need a truck) and has reasonable towing ability for the size of the vehicle.  But it doesn't do the Ridgeline thing and sit there going "see, I can be a real truck too" because it knows it isn't, but also shouldn't be. 

Honestly with 5000 lb towing, a closed deck trailer with a removal stake side setup and second set of wheels with more aggressive tires will handle 95% of hauling needs and softroading adventures people would ever do. A removal stake side on a closed deck better justifies the registration cost of a trailer that's otherwise used 6-8 times a year. It having a small enough footprint to park, a 100k warranty and 275hp makes it sound quite enjoyable to daily and roadtrip. The back seat room looks cramped, I suspect those with kids will wish that it was larger. 

Feedyurhed said:

I like it a lot. Better than I expected.  Now waiting for pricing and availability.  I have always liked the Ridgeline but it was just a little bit too big for my needs.

This. I think this thing looks pretty damn cool. And a 275hp turbo? The thought of cashing in my GTi for something like this will be very tempting, especially to get the extra utility. Really a shame it's not offered with three pedals, but DCT *may* be an acceptable tradeoff even to a luddite like me. 

Side note: my wife said "that looks dumb." But she drives an ultra-boring crossover and isn't into anything that isn't "normal," so I will disregard her opinion. 

I see that 275hp and 5000-lb tow rating and am doing the calculations in my head (my trailer is 1800, my rally car is 2800). It would be a stretch, but maybe if I get an aluminum trailer......Then I think "My berkeleying V8 Sequoia has 275hp, is lugging around an extra 1000+lbs of its own weight, and probably has smaller brakes than the Santa Cruz. 

I will honestly be interested to see some real-world reviews of how it actually tows, and how that transmission holds up.  A bit curious, since the Tucson is only rated for 1,000lbs towing, and isn't this based on that?

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Tow ratings are bizarre sometimes.  Like, Chevy made pickups with a tow rating of 0 pounds and a cargo rating of 100lb (I did not forget a naught), even though it shared the same brakes and transmission/rearend as more load-rated vehicles on the same chassis.

It also had twice the power of a regular pickup (Top Gear link because Top Gear)

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

The local trailer builders (Express Custom in Parksville really Coombs) build a car trailer 1200 pounds, electric brakes, and stake pockets. GVW of the trailer is 7000 pounds so that design would work. 

Rons said:

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

The local trailer builders (Express Custom in Parksville really Coombs) build a car trailer 1200 pounds, electric brakes, and stake pockets. GVW of the trailer is 7000 pounds so that design would work. 

I mean, my wife's CX-9 has close to the power of the Sequoia and pretty hefty brakes. It's rated to tow 3500 but honestly I wouldnt' have a whole lot of reservations about towing with it if I though the transmission would hold up. The Ford Flex is basically the same vehicle underneath and is rated to 4500. 

As to my trailer, I could probably knock a few hundred LBS off if I made it into a partial-deck.

That said, towing with the long-wheelbase Sequoia is far more pleasant than towing with my old 4Runner, which had the same engine and actually had bigger brakes. We tow fast (sometimes over 80) and over long distances to go to rally....so need something stable at highway left-lane speeds :)

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

I see that 275hp and 5000-lb tow rating and am doing the calculations in my head (my trailer is 1800, my rally car is 2800). It would be a stretch, but maybe if I get an aluminum trailer......Then I think "My berkeleying V8 Sequoia has 275hp, is lugging around an extra 1000+lbs of its own weight, and probably has smaller brakes than the Santa Cruz. 

I will honestly be interested to see some real-world reviews of how it actually tows, and how that transmission holds up.  A bit curious, since the Tucson is only rated for 1,000lbs towing, and isn't this based on that?

I'd rather tow 5k lbs with the Sequoia- the BOF truck with RWD tranny and axle not to mention an understressed V8 making 275 hp without forced induction. 
 

Nothing against the Hyundai, it will probably be great for most buyers and I could see it being used to tote a pop up camper, small boat, jet skis etc. If I was going to tackle a 5k load on a regular basis or tow it somewhere with big elevation changes I think I'd look to something more suited for the job

The Santa Cruz looks alright to me. 

The ideal pickup for me in my driveway works for my use. It's called a Honda Fit.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

I saw a YouTube video about this.  It was being compared as a modern Subaru brat.   I really like this. I hope it succeeds. 

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

In reality I think the towing capacity at 5000lbs would be pushing it, you'd be looking at one gas can or two decisions packing for an event. As an everyday driver that could tow the car alone for a short distance or perhaps pick up heavy parts etc perfet. 

Rons said:

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

In reality I think the towing capacity at 5000lbs would be pushing it, you'd be looking at one gas can or two decisions packing for an event. As an everyday driver that could tow the car alone for a short distance or perhaps pick up heavy parts etc perfet. 

Not seriously thinking about it - we fill up the entire interior of the Sequioa for rally with all our gear, tools, people, etc....the Santa Cruz wouldn't have enough space. My old 4Runner was even too small for our needs. 

That said, with that 100k Hyundai drivetrain warranty, just make sure you're under 5k and it's all covered if you blow it up, I suppose :)

I still like my Avalanche more, even at 190k.....

Some of the online auto test sites are reporting that the production Santa Cruz will have a retractable rear window which if true would be a really cool feature.

It's not uncommon for tow ratings to be limited by trans or drivetrain durability.  And short wheelbase vehicles or those with squishy suspensions don't tend to handle as much trailer without getting pushed around. 

Plus, some trailers are easier or harder on the tow rig.  A long, low windage trailer without much weight behind the axles (but not excessive tongue weight) is generally the easiest and most stable.  IMO, most car trailers are too short in the tongue and have the axles too far forward, making them less stable than they could be. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Tow ratings are bizarre sometimes.  Like, Chevy made pickups with a tow rating of 0 pounds and a cargo rating of 100lb (I did not forget a naught), even though it shared the same brakes and transmission/rearend as more load-rated vehicles on the same chassis.

 

It also had twice the power of a regular pickup (Top Gear link because Top Gear)

As fast as a Lamborghini Diablo!  

I like this Hyundai.  It would fit my future needs perfectly - 4 seats, can throw plenty of stuff in the back, can drive down muddy roads, can tow a light race car.  While I often find myself carrying extra stuff, only once in my life have I ever found myself needing to haul 4X8 sheets of plywood and/or drywall, so a standard pickup is less useful to me than something like this.

Just an irreverent thought. Since a 4' bed seems to be acceptable now, are we in a back to the future scenario, wherein a truck is increasingly little more than a macho sedan with a retractable trunk lid?

People act like roof racks can't handle plywood. 

Man, a Santa Cruz would look silly pulling my 18ft car trailer, but the 5k lbs capacity could certainly do it

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

People act like roof racks can't handle plywood. 

At highway speed, or with thin plywood, it's iffy unless you have a very long roof rack.  Most won't support enough of the plywood, so unless it's thick, you're going to flex it and risk breaking it. 

In reply to rslifkin :

How far are you really hauling plywood? Lowes and Home Depot aren't hundreds of miles away. The scenario where you need to haul plywood on an interstate is about zero, unless you're a contractor, which isn't this market. 

The only other situation I can think of is if there's a hurricane coming and you're going to board up a vacation home and all of the plywood local to that region has been gobbled up by other people boarding up. And in that scenario it's a lack of planning as you should have purchased the plywood and stored it in the offseason. And there's way around it, partneri up with others in the area or trading a generator for plywood. 

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

It depends on where you live.  Home Depot isn't usually 100 miles away, but in plenty of places it's in the next town over and the best way to get there involves a short highway run. 

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

People act like roof racks can't handle plywood. 

I once carried a sleeper sofa that weighed like 250lbs on the Thule roof rack on my Maxima.

Getting it up there and off was the less fun part, lol 

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

People act like roof racks can't handle plywood. 

I once carried a sleeper sofa that weighed like 250lbs on the Thule roof rack on my Maxima.

Getting it up there and off was the less fun part, lol 

I've done something similar on my Saturn.  The way that roof rack attached I wouldn't be surprised if you could set another car on it.

The rack I bought for my Soul (not OEM, not available in US) I am currently re-engineering the attachment points on because I could literally tear it off with my bare hands if I wanted to.  I would not trust it whatsoever to hold plywood, even though the support length is fine at ~69" long.

They keep giving us what they think we want, but they never give us what we really need!

It's in Toronto now

In reply to Mr. Peabody :

That gray & those wheels are like a couple of whacks with the ugly stick! Add in some "market adjustment" and that one might spend a lot of time on the dealer's lot unsold...

Yes it's hideous. But people will buy it

For some reason garage floor paint has become a thing on cars, and Hyundai/Kia definitely has some of the worst wheels in the business.

The wheels look like they borrowed a set off a Crosstrek, then spilled some extra ugly on them. 

The color reminds me of "Bristol Gray", an old BMW and newer Audi take.  I was at an Audi showroom that had a A8 on display in that shade of 

gray, for what seemed a long time.

I saw a Ford Explorer Sport Trac yesterday.  It reminded me of this Hyundai.  I had forgotten about those things.  They were popular for a bit IIRC.

rslifkin said:

Colin Wood said:

Two engine options:

• 2.5-liter four-cylinder good for " 190+ horsepower and 180+ lb.-ft. of torque"
• 2.5-liter turbocharged four-cylinder good for "275+ horsepower and 310+ lb.-ft. of torque"

The naturally aspirated engine is backed by an eight-speed auto and rated for 3500 lbs. of towing, with the turbo model mated to an eight-speed dual-clutch and can tow 5000 lbs.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the Santa Cruz is smaller than most trucks on the road, coming in at 195.7 in. long and 75 in. wide.

Now that's an interesting one...  First time I've ever heard of a DCT being mentioned for towing.  I guess it's either got a very low 1st gear or good management of clutch engagement so they're not worried about people burning it up trying to start gently on a hill. 

I missed this earlier.  The veloster N has a wet clutch DCT.  I'm betting this is related.  If its anything like a motorcycle wet clutch setup (granted, multi-plate is different), it should be pretty slippage tolerant.

In reply to ProDarwin :

Almost all twin clutch transmissions are wet clutch.

Let's not forget that automatic transmissions (and Laycock de Normanville overdrives) have had wet clutches for about eighty years.  And for the past 40 or so years, there have been wet clutches in the torque converters.   I think it'll be fine.

Freaky: 1940, the year of the first Hydra-Matic, was 81 years ago.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

Almost all twin clutch transmissions are wet clutch.

I did not know this.  Hyundai's other DCT (behind the 1.6T) is dry clutch.

Seems way more like a Subaru Baja then even a Ridgeline

In reply to m4ff3w :

Explorer sport trac. 

Mr. Peabody said:

It's in Toronto now

It doesn't look too bad, though I would rather get a Ridgeline.

While I hate that color and am generally salty about the proliferation of "shades of paving material" as a color pallete (ND Miatas, amiright), I really like how this is looks and the specs we've seen. It would fit nicely in my Scuderia.

AaronT said:

While I hate that color and am generally salty about the proliferation of "shades of paving material" as a color pallete (ND Miatas, amiright), I really like how this is looks and the specs we've seen. It would fit nicely in my Scuderia.

While you'd have to pay me to take it in a 'concrete' variation, I like this better as a light-duty utility vehicle than any of the sky scraping "Nuh uh, MINE is taller" offerings out there. The wheels would be replaced, at the lot if possible, for sure. I think grotesque is probably the best for those attrocities. I could wish the bed was longer but without stretching that length would have to come out of the back seat and we no that can't be allowed to happen. I'd really like a shorter hood height but it's the 2020s so it's probably enough that it doesn't have a front end designed by the Big 3, presumably designed to punt pedestrians are far as possible while inducing maximum concussionage when they hit the ground.

Overall, I like it. I don't love it but I agree with the previous mentions that it's aimed at the more self-aware suburban market who knows that they just need something like this for the occasional, light dirty work. The 5000lb tow rating on the turbo model did give me visions of pulling my Mustang to the track but that requires a car trailer that I don't have room for. If I absolutely had to replace my GTI, this would be a contender. I don't see myself ditching a fun, sporty, and paid-off GTI for a less-bloated modern bleh though, not when the Mustang will pull a trailer with anything I need.

I like that color.  And the ND Miata colors.

In reply to ProDarwin :

I certainly don't begrudge anyone their preferences. What bothers me about the ND is that you get a red, a blue, and then 7 colors between white and black. Greens, yellows, light blues, purples, etc are all sadly missing 

Finally saw one in the flesh and...... I really liked it. Hyundai has some sharp designers right now. It's enough smaller than a Ridgeline to fit into parking better. it looks modern, whereas the Maverick looks like a warmed over "traditional" (read boring) truck.  It's just truck-ish enough to not be a joke in that department, but stylish enough  to attract non-truck people.  Not having spoken with the driver or looked inside, that's all I can report, but I'd certainly welcome one to my stable.

Trucks are not my thing, but that Santa Cruz is a nice ride  I am surprised I have only seen one on the road. They should sell like hotcakes in a righteous world. 

In reply to GTwannaB :

I think that they are selling OK. Just not that many to sell yet. Where I live, dealers have been tacking on premiums - usually a sign of a hot commodity. I haven't even seen a Maverick yet. Chip shortage blues?

Just saw my first one in the metal this morning, in the obligatory non-metallic beige that smaller trucks are required to have as an option these days.

It wasn't bad looking.  Hyundai didn't ruin the grille as badly as they have on the cars.  However, I prefer the Ridgeline, I think.