Anybody have any experience swapping electric drivetrains into other cars?
What's the best donor for around 150 to 200hp?
This needs to be done CHEAP as an experiment. Like free would be best.
Range can be as little as 15 miles.
I see leafs, but they only have like 107 hp. Can they be cranked up to 150? Can the inverter work outside of the car (like in a miata for example)?
Any help is appreciated!
Chevrolet Bolt?
I have no experience, but look forward to hearing about it. Be careful with isolation and battery management!
There is no such thing as cheap or free "safe" batteries for an EV.
The constraints sound like an old school lead acid forklift motor job. Although the power level might be a bit of a challenge.
Keep in mind that power output is dependent not just on the motor, but on the battery's ability to deliver power quickly enough. It's the "C" rating, and it's something that's talked about a lot in RC circles. Think of it as how quickly the battery can discharge, and it's a factor. A battery with a rating of 1C and a capacity of 10 Ah can deliver 10 A (1 x 10). A 10C rating would let it deliver 100A (10 x 10)- obviously for a shorter period. But you can see that the capacity matters as well - a battery with a rating of 1C and a capacity of 20Ah can deliver 20A. This is a big reason why long range and high performance are often linked in EVs, those big capacity batteries can deliver a big punch.
What this means for you is that you need a battery pack that can deliver enough amps to generate your power need, and that's probably going to be more expensive and longer range than you want. Or you'll want to use some sort of exotic chemistry - RC battery packs that are optimized for high C numbers are notoriously difficult to live with.
Trent said:There is no such thing as cheap or free "safe" batteries for an EV.
I have a firesuit.
A stock leaf battery could be used.
Think something along the lines of the grm challenge.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I learned something today, thank you. Didn't know anything about the C parameter. So hypothetically- would batteries from a hybrid be designed differently from a plug in EV? Capacity and duration of discharge would be less of an issue for hybrids.
A Leaf motor+inverter is pretty cheap and can be cranked up to 150hp+ with aftermarket controller software. The Leaf battery is uncooled though so it would be particularly ill-suited to being run hard for more than a couple minutes at a time.
GameboyRMH said:A Leaf motor+inverter is pretty cheap and can be cranked up to 150hp+ with aftermarket controller software. The Leaf battery is uncooled though so it would be particularly ill-suited to being run hard for more than a couple minutes at a time.
Couple minutes would be just fine.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
I learned something today, thank you. Didn't know anything about the C parameter. So hypothetically- would batteries from a hybrid be designed differently from a plug in EV? Capacity and duration of discharge would be less of an issue for hybrids.
According to this Car and Driver article, definitely.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15345397/battery-taxonomy-the-differences-between-hybrid-and-ev-batteries/
You can get the C factor by looking at the capacity of the battery and the "discharge power" in the chart. The "power to energy ratio" is effectively it. You can see that F150 hybrid battery is a lot spicier than the Mach-E one - but it still can't deliver as much power because it's so much smaller.
C also applies to charge rate, and that's where automakers are really working hard.
Here's a place to get some ideas, then look for used stuff that matches it.
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/
Rich Rebuilds did a cheap MINI Cooper using old Volt batteries and used controllers for about $3k including the cost of the car:
GameboyRMH said:A Leaf motor+inverter is pretty cheap and can be cranked up to 150hp+ with aftermarket controller software. The Leaf battery is uncooled though so it would be particularly ill-suited to being run hard for more than a couple minutes at a time.
https://openinverter.org/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=57
Referenced software (afaik) requires this control board (has it installed). ~£350
Supposedly I've read in the past that it doesn't work well "still inside a Leaf"
Dunno how doable bidding on a crashed Gen1 Leaf at Copart/IAAI would be? I think there's some competition with dismantlers/ev-swap providers?
Last I checked wrecked leafs still somehow go for more than challenge budget.
But I'd love to be proven wrong.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:Last I checked wrecked leafs still somehow go for more than challenge budget.
But I'd love to be proven wrong.
car-part has the 2010-2012 "motor assembly" for $500, the "transmission" for $300, the inverter for ~$500 (under hybrid inverter/converter), the "ECM" for $150. wow, the charger is listed between $1k. and there's a bunch of miscellaneous things I'm probably not pick out like power wires, and charge port, throttle pedal assembly etc.
iirc, getting the drivetrain itself (motor gear reduction) iirc is ~$3k from online swap places.
so, part of the reason I think they're going at auction for so much is that there's a bunch of "useful"/"expensive" electronics in them to part out and sell off.
I came close to doing this but backed off one day, sitting in traffic in my gas truck, thinking, "you know, I could spend years and $$$$$ building a really fast sports car, and be sitting right here in this same traffic." For the track, sure, but keep charging options open!
kb58 said:I came close to doing this but backed off one day, sitting in traffic in my gas truck, thinking, "you know, I could spend years and $$$$$ building a really fast sports car, and be sitting right here in this same traffic." For the track, sure, but keep charging options open!
I'm pretty sure this is being considered in the context of GRM Challenge, now that a Maserati BiTurbo has been there. This is kinda "one of the last great hurdles", I think?
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
Shhhhh!
Buying a volt or a leaf and taking ALL of the weight out of it and selling off everything not needed could make for a quick-ish car.
It's also about a perfect use case for an electric car. Couple minutes of use followed by hours of sitting around.
Making one rwd or dual motor would be even cooler.
Battery C rate and power not the issue for DIY. Busbar capacity and connection is biggest challenge.
In reply to bbbbRASS :
If fire risk it to be ignored, sure. Over discharge a battery, and it can burn rather nastilly.
It's a risk for both charge and discharge- I've seen some interesting videos of shorted batteries that quickly catch fire (the battery, not the copper).
that actually raises kind of an interesting question. what's the charging infrastructure like in/around/at Gainesville (or elsewhere, if it moves)?
we've only charged "Tom's old Leaf" via 110v. I reckon there'd be RV hook ups to use... but that'd probably be a different charger than the one that came from him? (fortunately that charger wouldn't be included in budget costs).
5 runs at 40sec; say 2/3 on-power. 3 runs at... 15sec "all power". that's 4.1mins or 0.0681hours.
160hp or ~120kW for 0.0681hrs = 8kWh
the stock early Leaf pack is 24kWh. If it's down 3 bars, that's ~18kWh... so you'd need close to 50% of that pack for competition. So, doable on a full 100% charge (assuming you can get that activated). otherwise, get your runs done early and then go grab some charge for the night drags.
and you'll lose power output ability as the pack drops below ? 50% original capacity? I'm just guessing here... I'm happy for someone with more knowledge to chime in. but, that's something to keep in mind.
Ah, if you have more than 1 pack, you can swap them. Sorta like adding fuel to a tank!
Boom:
https://www.iaai.com/VehicleDetail/39293189~US
sold via buy now for $1800. Key programming can be done for free. (I have the machine, happy to hook you up). I'm willing to bet you could recoup enough to give you a ton of budget room. 200hp. Golden.
In reply to dculberson :
actually, that might be a good point. the Bolt battery issues might dampen their current auction sales; might be the right avenue to go?
for the "piece it together yourself" type, another option might be a pair of rx450h "rear electric differentials" (one front, one rear)...
supposedly they're 67hp (50kW) from the factory. I'm seeing prices between $150-$400. would still need controllers and a pack to drive it. might be better for someone who was looking to add hybrid-awd to a fwd thing?
67hp you say.. I have a chassis that could live with 2 of those in my garage. I think I could make the chassis challenge legal at <500 lbs before drivetrain/batteries.
Keep suggesting parts I might make a shopping list.
I considered EV-swapping my first 924 when it showed up with a seized engine. Was looking at wrecked Bolts - 200 hp would have doubled the stock power and the drive unit probably woul dhave fit where the stock transaxle and gas tank are..
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