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oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy UberDork
3/9/19 1:14 p.m.

In reply to Dootz :

well it was 7 years ago....  a 4AGE is about 250#s, and rather compact....  and they can be made to make some power.   And as a current footnote, a "7AGE" based on the 7A block can plant 270hp......

RossD
RossD MegaDork
3/9/19 2:43 p.m.
TenToeTurbo said:

This thread is relevant to my interests. I really want to put the motor from my SVT Focus into a late '80s base Ranger after NY winters consume enough of the Focus' body.

The Zetec is used in lots of Lotus Seven type cars. The SVT is easy to adapt to ITBs since it has a different intake with a lower portion.

The zetec I weighed was around 250 lbs with some fluids in it, coil, auto flywheel, throttle body, intake and exhaust manifolds, water pump, and a few assorted brackets. Really was quite complete minus accessories.

The nice thing is if you scrounge, you can get Ford factory parts to make it RWD, or just shell out for aftermarket.

TenToeTurbo
TenToeTurbo Dork
3/17/19 11:57 p.m.

In reply to RossD :

It would be a good bit lighter and make more than double the horsepower of the 2.0 Lima. A little bit of googling tells me that the Ranger weighs less than the Focus, too. 

ae86andkp61
ae86andkp61 Dork
3/18/19 12:40 a.m.

I haven't had both on the scale myself, but I did obsessively follow British and American Locost forums and boards from the late-90's through to about 2010, and time and again those guys came to the same conclusion: that the 4A-GE/T-50 is lighter and smaller than a Zetec/Type 9...but depending on your sources the Toyota is possibly more expensive to buy/tune.

Yes, it is an iron block...a very thin, very small one that makes it surprisingly light. I've also heard from both Lotus Seven guys and AE86 guys that have tried Toyota 4AG and Nissan SR20 in the same car that the alloy block Nissan engine is a little heavier, and the Nissan transmission is a bit heavier as well.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
3/21/19 8:41 a.m.

People get so hung up on the iron Vs alloy block.  Not a four cyl, but remember a 302 SBF with iron block is lighter than alloy blocked LSx's

Knurled.
Knurled. GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/21/19 11:30 a.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

An aluminum block 5cyl Volvo weighs more than an old Audi iron block 5cyl, and the VW 2.5 is far lighter than that (while still being iron block!)

 

Same for the Nissans... light searching says the SR20s are heavier than CA18s despite being aluminum vs. iron.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/21/19 12:09 p.m.
TenToeTurbo said:

This thread is relevant to my interests. I really want to put the motor from my SVT Focus into a late '80s base Ranger after NY winters consume enough of the Focus' body.

Well,,, a better engine would be to take the Ranger Duratec 2.3l Powertrain, and put in the cams from the Focus.  Then you have more power than the SVT Zetec.  With a truck transmission already attached to it.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
3/21/19 12:27 p.m.
Knurled. said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

An aluminum block 5cyl Volvo weighs more than an old Audi iron block 5cyl,

Now that I didn't know.  One more useless fact filed away.  Note, I do own a 5cyl Volvo so I should know this.  

Cooter
Cooter SuperDork
3/21/19 12:52 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson said:

People get so hung up on the iron Vs alloy block.  Not a four cyl, but remember a 302 SBF with iron block is lighter than alloy blocked LSx's

Not unless you have aluminum heads on that 302.  And you are still down on both displacement and performance.

Dave M
Dave M Reader
3/21/19 5:10 p.m.

I still vote Ecotec but I'm biased!

Knurled.
Knurled. GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/21/19 7:15 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

I had been considering trying to mount one in the Quantum for weight loss, and found to my surprise that it would have been a negative gain.  I still might try to use Volvo electronics though.

Knurled.
Knurled. GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/21/19 7:19 p.m.
Cooter said:
Adrian_Thompson said:

People get so hung up on the iron Vs alloy block.  Not a four cyl, but remember a 302 SBF with iron block is lighter than alloy blocked LSx's

Not unless you have aluminum heads on that 302.  And you are still down on both displacement and performance.

Are you sure?  I thought iron headed SBFs were in the 450lb range and LS1s were in the 480lb range.

 

8.2 inch deck SBFs, especially the post-83 5.0s, use the absolute bare minimum of iron.  The blocks only weigh 135lb.  The heads are so thin that you can flex them if you fixture them too firmly when machining.  Yes the LS is aluminum, but it's also beefy enough to be able to make 1200+ hp with stock everything, which is like three times what a 5.0 could do, AFTER you spend a ton of effort trying to keep the heads sealed to the decks because the decks are so flexible...

svxsti
svxsti Reader
3/24/19 2:16 a.m.
Knurled. said:
Cooter said:
Adrian_Thompson said:

People get so hung up on the iron Vs alloy block.  Not a four cyl, but remember a 302 SBF with iron block is lighter than alloy blocked LSx's

Not unless you have aluminum heads on that 302.  And you are still down on both displacement and performance.

Are you sure?  I thought iron headed SBFs were in the 450lb range and LS1s were in the 480lb range.

 

8.2 inch deck SBFs, especially the post-83 5.0s, use the absolute bare minimum of iron.  The blocks only weigh 135lb.  The heads are so thin that you can flex them if you fixture them too firmly when machining.  Yes the LS is aluminum, but it's also beefy enough to be able to make 1200+ hp with stock everything, which is like three times what a 5.0 could do, AFTER you spend a ton of effort trying to keep the heads sealed to the decks because the decks are so flexible...o.       

 

 

​​​​​​It would cost 5k for a Ford 347 to make 410hp and less than that to salvage an LS1 and bolt on an Edelbrock kit for 410hp.

Knurled.
Knurled. GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/24/19 5:53 a.m.

In reply to svxsti :

 

If you want to go that route, you can easily make more than stock LS1 power for less than the price of an LS1.  I've been seeing bare engines (no wiring/PCM/accessories) creeping up past $2k and going on th three.

Which is part of why I want to try the LS4 route.

 

But you can bolt better heads and intake on a 302 (and make them lighter in the process!), you can't lighten an LS1.

 

A 289/302/5.0 with light heads and intake manifold and headers will weigh as little as some four-cylinders.  It's also VERY compact.  Slightly longer than an LS1 (an admittedly very short engine) but much narrower in width.  Height wise the Ford is going to be taller because it was designed around carburetion, while the LS is a modern design designed around barrel intakes so they can get those nice high flowing downdrafted intake ports... which means if you put a carb manifold on one, it ends up being almost as tall as a tunnel ram.

Opti
Opti Dork
3/24/19 8:29 a.m.

1.4 turbo ecotec

wspohn
wspohn Dork
3/24/19 11:03 a.m.

Ecotec in a TR6

 

Ecotec in a Miata - the 2.4 170 bhp one mildly hopped up to 201 whp.

 

malibuguy
malibuguy GRM+ Memberand Reader
3/24/19 11:16 a.m.

In reply to singleslammer :

wow even a 1uz weighs less

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