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Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UltimaDork
2/13/23 5:01 p.m.

My wife and I have owned our house for over 12 years now, and we're finally to the point where we need to either renovate the place or move elsewhere. We're leaning about 90% toward renovation, due to cost, bang for the buck, and the fact that we like our area/town. Right now, I have a small detached one-car garage that's still standing but needs some serious help. Part of the renovation is fixing that up, but one of the things we've been tossing out there is adding a 2nd backyard shop, that way all the car project/workshop stuff can live in there and the wife can use the original garage for her car. The most cost effective (and easiest) way of doing this is erecting a metal building. The only caveat is we have wetlands behind us, so the structure needs to be 25ft away from them due to the conservation rules in my area. Should be doable. 

Right now, we have a shed back there. 




Here's an EXPERT rendering of a garage back there: 


In all seriousness, I'm hoping to pour a slab (not sure on the dimensions yet) at some point after the house is done and add either an oversized one car or a 2 car with a small work area. Something like one of these:







Since you guys know everything, I'd love to hear from some folks that have one of these things. Any drawbacks to the metal garages? Any good places/vendors to buy one from? Any tips/tricks once it's set up?

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
2/13/23 5:33 p.m.

Just added a metal building to my farm. It is a write off for "packaging" on my farm. However, it also doubles as a 60 car storage. Will be back at farm this weekend, if you want to see photos etc. 

 

Cost me $37,000 total with concrete. 

 

Drawbacks - i still get a lot of critters. Cost me $9,800 on damage on 3 brand new Tacomas. Thank god for insurance. But honey and dates attract critters.  Its hot/cold. No real insulation. Not a problem for me, but just letting you know.   We get temps of 40F-125F. 

 

Mine is a "drive through" with doors on garage doors on both ends. 

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UltimaDork
2/13/23 5:43 p.m.

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

I know people do insulate these, and I know it probably won't be that efficient as far as heating/cooling goes. That sort of comes with the territory. It's also going to be next to the woods, so keeping critters out will be something to keep in mind. Already dealing with that in my shed. 

I have no idea what realistic cost on one of these would be. I am guesstimating about $20k total for something the size of what I'm looking for, but I could be way off. 

Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter)
Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) Dork
2/13/23 5:49 p.m.

I have had two. They are super common here in Texas.

Spray foam insulation makes them cozy and keeps the temps reasonable. 

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
2/13/23 5:57 p.m.

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Hold up. Can temporarily store some Mercedes there if I find some in SoCal that I like? LoL

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
2/13/23 6:19 p.m.
yupididit said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

Hold up. Can temporarily store some Mercedes there if I find some in SoCal that I like? LoL

I have 14 car spaces in Los Angeles, no need for you to go to farm.  I have currently using only 11 for DD duties etc. 

Farm has space for about 23 right now. Rest are all full ;)

Don't forget to give me your jAAAAAAG

For you - anytime, anywhere. 

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
2/13/23 6:22 p.m.
Tony Sestito said:

In reply to mr2s2000elise :

I know people do insulate these, and I know it probably won't be that efficient as far as heating/cooling goes. That sort of comes with the territory. It's also going to be next to the woods, so keeping critters out will be something to keep in mind. Already dealing with that in my shed. 

I have no idea what realistic cost on one of these would be. I am guesstimating about $20k total for something the size of what I'm looking for, but I could be way off. 

Yeah they are all over the midwest, which is where I got the idea. Locally no one has them. Another thing you can do (I just ordered 4 more) are the truck containers. They are about $2800-$3500 each. Hipsters use them to live. 

 

I am currently using these 18 wheeler containers for storage. I put all our picking in there, and use a reefer air, and they stay cold inside. Essentially 40 feet refrigerators. People actually store cars in them to, though I don't.

 

Yeah critters is my main issue. If  I kept all doors closed always etc, and be more vigilant would be better. But having so many farm labors etc, it isn't possible, so we just live with the critters. 

 

Cost is I am sure very dependant on labor.  My farm is in very heavy DEA trafficed territory. So contractors think I am super rich with easy money when I give them zipcode. Its like owning a Ferrari... I have to pay the drug dealer tax. 

Happy to answer anything else you want. 

travellering
travellering HalfDork
2/13/23 9:31 p.m.

 

Ok, how big is a 60 car storage?  I ask from only having 22 cars at the moment...

 

untchabl
untchabl HalfDork
2/13/23 11:43 p.m.

Also curious about the dimensions of your building mr2s2000elise. Here in central NC, a 40'x60'x12' enclosed metal building (carport style with the square galvanized tubing frame) was approx. $40,000 with concrete and installation (non-permitted construction aka frame anchored to 4" concrete slab, no footers).

Im currently leaning towards pole barn style construction with steel trusses for my future shop. But I'm just now finishing up clearing the land and getting building estimates.

STM317
STM317 PowerDork
2/14/23 5:42 a.m.

If the plan is to ever hvac this building, adding some rigid foam insulation under the slab could make a big difference in your neck of the woods.

NermalSnert (Forum Supporter)
NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
2/14/23 7:41 a.m.

If you insulate it, make sure that any steel through fasteners from outside to inside are covered or insulated. You'll get condensation (rain) inside. A stray cat showed up here a few years ago who was FHIV +. We had her spayed and got all of her shots. I couldn't put her down so she's the shop cat/rodent patrol.

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UltimaDork
2/14/23 8:06 a.m.

Good info so far, thanks! To answer a couple of questions/provide comments for clarity:

-It has to look presentable (especially to SWMBO) so no shipping containers. Besides, I want it to be a working shop. 

-I don't see me doing anything more than a window AC unit or a few electric radiator heaters for HVAC. At most, I'd maybe do a wood stove, but that's depending on the size. 

-Good point on the fasteners. Condensation will definitely be a thing. Spray-in foam or some sort of spackle spray coating might be the answer there. 

-If a cat shows up, that would be OK. I like cats. Wife is allergic but also likes cats. My dogs though, they don't understand cats. It also wouldn't be the 1st time that happened; one showed up and tried to claim my Trans Am a few years ago under squatters rights! 

porschenut
porschenut HalfDork
2/14/23 8:47 a.m.

No experience with pole barns, my garage is an 84 lumber kit.  Ordered in the size I wanted, got drawings and such for permits and every piece needed to build it. 25 years later no issues.

NermalSnert (Forum Supporter)
NermalSnert (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
2/14/23 9:35 a.m.

I put a couple of sweeps for wiring and  stub ups for a toilet, drains, and water just in case in the slab.

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
2/14/23 11:37 a.m.
untchabl said:

Also curious about the dimensions of your building mr2s2000elise. Here in central NC, a 40'x60'x12' enclosed metal building (carport style with the square galvanized tubing frame) was approx. $40,000 with concrete and installation (non-permitted construction aka frame anchored to 4" concrete slab, no footers).

Im currently leaning towards pole barn style construction with steel trusses for my future shop. But I'm just now finishing up clearing the land and getting building estimates.

The one I mentioned above is 7500 sq feet. 105 sq feet per car - plenty of room. 

 

The one I am building now (will be finished on Friday), is 2900 sq feet. 

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
2/14/23 11:41 a.m.
Tony Sestito said:

Good info so far, thanks! To answer a couple of questions/provide comments for clarity:

-It has to look presentable (especially to SWMBO) so no shipping containers. Besides, I want it to be a working shop. 

-I don't see me doing anything more than a window AC unit or a few electric radiator heaters for HVAC. At most, I'd maybe do a wood stove, but that's depending on the size. 

-Good point on the fasteners. Condensation will definitely be a thing. Spray-in foam or some sort of spackle spray coating might be the answer there. 

-If a cat shows up, that would be OK. I like cats. Wife is allergic but also likes cats. My dogs though, they don't understand cats. It also wouldn't be the 1st time that happened; one showed up and tried to claim my Trans Am a few years ago under squatters rights! 
 

I use splits for A/C. Cost us $1100 a unit installed. We have been using 20+ at the farm, and 7 at the house. Fantastic, no issues. Best use of $/electric.  It also does heat, and is fantastic. 

For me it is rodent, coyotes.  It isn't cats/dogs. 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
2/14/23 12:08 p.m.

Those style pre-engineered buildings are extremely common in the South.  They might  be harder to do in MA with code regulations and snow loads. Stee prices vary wildly, and so do the prices. 
 

I'm doing a a hybrid pole barn right now for a shop. I like the look. Wood posts, steel trusses. It's a system that COULD be done by a DIYer, but super fast when the pros put it up. 28'x 36'. I paid contractors. The roof, wood structure cost me $8600, and the slab will cost $4500. I will infill the walls and build a mezzanine (mostly myself with salvaged material). I can keep the whole thing under $20K including windows and doors.  And yes, appearance matters.

 

This is mine. Weather has been bad. We are waiting for things to dry out before pouring the slab

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
2/14/23 12:11 p.m.

In reply to Tony Sestito :

BTW, your rendering looks a lot like mine. But you may have issues with the height (depending on local codes)

If that building has 8' doors, then your race height is 12' or more, and then you have a steep pitched roof. I don't know how tall your house is, but a lot of municipalities won't allow an accessory structure to be taller than the house. YMMV

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito UltimaDork
2/14/23 12:55 p.m.

In reply to SV reX :

This won't be taller than the house; that's actually getting raised up a bit and getting a full 2nd story as part of the renovations we're doing. Good point on the snow loads; I'll have to look into that further. A hybrid pole barn-style shop might fit the bill, though. 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
2/14/23 1:59 p.m.

In reply to Tony Sestito :

The $8600 included the labor to install the wood and metal. If I had wanted to install it myself it would have been under $5K. 
 

Im sure it will cost more in MA. 
 

Both pre-engineered metal buildings and hybrid buildings can be built to handle snow load, but they will cost more. 

travellering
travellering HalfDork
2/14/23 7:06 p.m.

In reply to SV reX :

Are your wood posts just sunk in the dirt?  I was expecting to do concrete pad first whenever we build whatever we build, and making the slab to include the anchor piers for the building.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
2/14/23 7:48 p.m.

So, what is the major difference in end use for a climate controlled shop between the metal, red iron, and pole barn style ls being discussed? Think 80 in the summer, 50 in the winter climate controlled. 

Im learning from this discussion. 

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/14/23 8:19 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

From what I'm looking at you're kinda right at the line.  Metal and red iron will need spray foam which can get expensive.  Pole barn style can be more easy to traditional insulate.  One of the things I like are a total sealed building with insulation foam sheets on the outside.  Once you tape them up that's your vapor barrier.  Don't assume something up north is good vs something more south.  For example up in the OP's area they need a vapor barrier on the inside.  Down here in FL we need it on the outside.

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
2/14/23 9:17 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

None of them lend themselves well to traditional batt insulation.  The metal buildings can be purchased with metal building insulation- it's rolls that are applied between the frame and the metal skin.  Not bad, but not high R value.  The hybrid pole building roof can be insulated with batts.  On mine I will be infilling typical stud construction walls between the posts, which could be insulated easily.  Anything metal will transfer heat and cold through the metal, so the best system would include a thermal break (metal building insulation between frame and skin, insulated panels on the exterior, or spray foam on the interior)

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
2/14/23 9:18 p.m.

In reply to SV reX :

I like the look of those trusses a lot. 

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